Is There a Doctor in the House? (zoid post)
POSTED BY: zoid
UPDATED: Thursday, June 10, 2004 17:26
VIEWED: 12630
PAGE 5 of 8
Gunhand worries that he doesn't express his thoughts very well, but I think he did just fine, at least I think I understand what he was trying to say. Don't agree with it, but...
I also usually don't find the right words for what I want to say until after the fact, but for now this is how I feel about it.
Zoid...this is the first of your many very entertaining posts that I really disagree with. Simon should not be judged by the rules of Kaylee's world, any more than she should be judged by his.
I suppose I identify with Simon a lot because I am basically very shy myself, and while certainly not top 3% I am no dummy either. But under the surface, I believe Simon (and myself) are sensitive, caring individuals, who would have things a lot better in life if people would just accept us the way we are and not try to put us into the mold of what they want us to be.
There is no reason he should submit to Kaylee's flirtations since she is hardly the type of girl he would be attracted to under normal circumstances. A better match for him would be Inara, not as a companion mind you, but if she left the guild don't you think she would make the perfect doctor's wife?
As for your final (say it ain't so) quote from General Wilkins' book. I doubt if River is referring to Book since he is the author of the book being quoted, so my guess is that it is Simon.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
There is no reason he should submit to Kaylee's flirtations since she is hardly the type of girl he would be attracted to under normal circumstances. A better match for him would be Inara, not as a companion mind you, but if she left the guild don't you think she would make the perfect doctor's wife?
Honestly, no, I can't see Inara as Simon's wife. As for Kaylee, I think he desperately wants to submit to her flirtations, he just doesn't quite know how to. Maybe what attacts him is that she's not the girl he would have been introduced to in his old life. But Simon's old life is more or less over -- even if River is cured, he's not likely to be a surgeon on Osiris again, and even if he is, he won't be the one who left.
Quote:
As for your final (say it ain't so) quote from General Wilkins' book. I doubt if River is referring to Book since he is the author of the book being quoted, so my guess is that it is Simon.
I thought about Simon (also Mal), but dismissed him because his quote was something about "history says I saved River." History can't both say something about him and "forget" him. The only character who is gone, who is not mentioned in these by the name he used on Serenity, is Book. So I'm sticking with my assessment.
Delia
___________________________________________
Spike: Why don't you rip her lungs out? It might make an impression.
Angelus: Lacks... poetry.
Spike: It doesn't have to. What rhymes with lungs?
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ecgordon, Delia, et alia:
First, I think Delia's closer to the truth of the Simon/Kaylee 'close orbit'. Simon does want to take Kaylee up on her tacit (unspoken, if likewise unsubtle) offer. He is very attracted to her, and without reservations. The problem is that he always manages to stick his foot in it (as in when he came down the ramp in "Safe") at the most inopportune time, and queer the deal. In "The Message", he's at the very threshold of closing that deal in the booth with the cow fetus exhibit when he manages to insult her yet again, and everybody knows it ("Oh my God, it's hideous! Oh, and look: There's something in a jar," LMFAO). In "Safe", wherein Kaylee is about to buy him a gift, he manages to blunder in and insult her gift and all the people who are so unsophisticated as to live on a backwater planet, and fly around on a piece of go-se spaceship under a ping-something of a captain. He so thoroughly insults Kaylee's sensibilities he might as well have looked her straight in the eye and said, "Oh yeah and you're ugly too" (punchline from the old joke about the patient who asked her doctor for a second opinion).
Shy?! How many times did Simon get punched out in a single episode by Mal for for being outspoken, insulting him or contravening the captain's orders? ("Saw that one coming.") Simon is no shrinking violet when it comes to speaking his mind. Some might say that he's self-absorbed, but I reckon he's more just a clutz: He manages to miss the forest for the trees a lot, and when he speaks his mind seems to have no inkling that his words may offend others (by which example, I too identify with him).
Delia:
I was so worried that someone might get the wrong idea about the last 'future quote'; but, it's apparent that I have not failed, so *phew!*, that's a load off my mind. I left it intentionally ambiguous, intending it to be thought-provoking, and it's worked (zoid feels gratified that he didn't 'screw the pooch'). It looks like different people see the Unnamed Man as different characters -- which probably says a lot about the individuals making those guesses -- and so, provide everyone who's playing (me, too!) an inside glimpse into the nature of those doing the guessing. Isn't that fun?
So, well and good. Next week I'll repost them all in a single thread, and give a synopsis, and you'll see that I gave you the necessary hints as to who the Unnamed Man was, that I didn't 'cheat'. (zoid chuckles to himself and rubs hands together, maleficently)
Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"I knew a man once. History will never recall him, or what he gave to make us free. That's the way he wanted it. But as long as I live I'll remember, and he'll never truly die."
- River, from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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Zoid,
I just had to go reread all my posts on this thread so that I could be sure I wasn't about to contradict myself.
I agree with you that "shy" is the wrong word for Simon. I'd say "reserved," without hesitation, but "shy" just ain't quite it. And his problems with getting the words right (or at least not wrong) with Kaylee get even more complicated.
My new thought on Simon and Kaylee, stemming from some conversations in Jaynestown. Both the "I would never not with Kaylee" mess and the scene at the end, especially "My way of being polite, or however it's...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. I'm showing respect."
I think both go to the fact that Simon is probably from a world where there are girls you marry and girls you have a bit of fun with. Simon is still operating under the rules of his society, and he's trying to treat Kaylee as one of the former (though the society from which he comes would probably deem her one of the latter). Sleeping with her (or even coming remotely close), especially while they're both drunk, is therefore out of the question, because that would be disrepectful, no matter how much he might want to. Thus his denial that he "would never, not with Kaylee." (The fact that he's basically talking to her big brother probably comes into play a bit, too. 
)
Simon is off-kilter already, and Kaylee just throws him even further from what he know. I have no doubt women in Simon's world knew how to make it obvious that they were willing, it was supposed to be discreet (see the insult to Banning in Shindig). Having Kaylee make it quite obvious what she wants is not anything Simon has ever had to deal with before. And trying to merge the behaviors and mores of one society with the behaviors and mores of another is not an easy thing.
I suppose I knew you weren't going to confirm or deny anything about the Mystery Man. I'm going to have to read back over all the quotes again and see what clues I can find! I'm looking forward to the summation -- what do you have planned as a follow-up?
Out of curiosity, am I to read anything into the fact that River is identified only as "River" and has no last name?
Delia
___________________________________________
Spike: Why don't you rip her lungs out? It might make an impression.
Angelus: Lacks... poetry.
Spike: It doesn't have to. What rhymes with lungs?
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Since Inara is the only one not given a quote from the book I suppose we can assume Zoid will tell us that the secret all along is that Inara is a man, and that the syringe held an estrogen booster. 
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:
Since Inara is the only one not given a quote from the book I suppose we can assume Zoid will tell us that the secret all along is that Inara is a man, and that the syringe held an estrogen booster.
wo men ren ran zai fei xing.
Inara had a quote about thinking River was sweet but crazy. All nine are accounted for.
Delia
___________________________________________
Spike: Why don't you rip her lungs out? It might make an impression.
Angelus: Lacks... poetry.
Spike: It doesn't have to. What rhymes with lungs?
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Quote:
Originally posted by Delia:
Inara had a quote about thinking River was sweet but crazy. All nine are accounted for.
Okay, my bad. I missed that one.
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ecgordon wrote:
Quote:
Okay, my bad. I missed that one.
No problem, it was the second in the series, really before anybody (me included) had any definitive idea of what was going on. Here's the actual quote:
"River? I thought she was a sweet girl. Of course, we were all sure she was crazy, too."
- Inara Reynolds, Secretary of Ecumenical Affairs
from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
Respectfully,
zoid
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Delia, Mistress of Tomes wrote:
Quote:
I suppose I knew you weren't going to confirm or deny anything about the Mystery Man. I'm going to have to read back over all the quotes again and see what clues I can find! I'm looking forward to the summation -- what do you have planned as a follow-up?
Out of curiosity, am I to read anything into the fact that River is identified only as "River" and has no last name?
Delia
Well, like I said, I left it ambiguous but the clues are there; enough (IMO, too many) to help one unravel the mystery. But, as River says in the quote, the man is unnamed because he wanted it that way. Therefore, more than a wish on my part to be mysterious, it's really just River keeping him anonymous in order to respect his wishes; so it works on that level, too, hmm?
I'm no River. I'll name him next Monday, but not before. In the meantime, y'all feel free to guess and provide supporting evidence. I wanna see if the speculation 'spoils' the ending. I'm betting it won't, strictly because whoever gets forwarded as a candidate, you've got to figure out exactly how it all fits together in order to make any sense of the series as a whole, and my money says nobody can (unless there's a mind-reader in the audience; "River?").
This is germane, because I've often argued that speculation about Firefly is not spoiling. How Joss gets us to his conclusion is more important than where he's taking us. The 'future quote' series has -- in some small part -- become an experiment to prove or disprove that theory.
One thing I've definitely discovered in the process, though, is that it's not necessarily required to know a journey of discovery's destination when one sets out, just a direction in which to start. This makes me wonder if JW knew from the beginning -- or if he yet knows -- what Firefly's ultimate destination is, or if he only really knew what direction he wanted to go. Is Firefly's story writing itself, as mine did?
Fascinating, as Mr. Spock would say (if moot)...
As to what I'll do next, I have no idea. I'll do something, and then see where it leads me. Crazy as I know that sounds, it's a methodology that works for me; it's how I did the 'future quotes' series. I had only a basic idea of what I was doing and then about four weeks in, the whole thing became clear to me and finished writing itself. It's probably the oddest style of invention I've ever heard of, but one that has worked for me time and again since I first discovered it about twenty years ago...
As to River's lack of a last name, there are many things that can be read into that, and several would be correct.
But I think I will definitely never illuminate that mystery, at least not in this series, heh-heh...Respectfully,
zoid
_________________________________________________
"I knew a man once. History will never recall him, or what he gave to make us free. That's the way he wanted it. But as long as I live I'll remember, and he'll never truly die."
- River, from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
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Quote:
Originally posted by zoid:
_________________________________________________
"I knew a man once. History will never recall him, or what he gave to make us free. That's the way he wanted it. But as long as I live I'll remember, and he'll never truly die."
- River, from A Child Shall Lead Them: A History of the Second War of Independence Wilkins, Richard
How 'bout a WAG and I'll go with Badger. He's really the leader of the underground movement that helped Simon rescue River. He'd probably want to stay anonymous, since all his dealings aren't strictly legal.
Off to get on my plane now.
All my life I wanted to be somebody. I guess I should have been more specific.
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