Rewriting Shindig

POSTED BY: DMI
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:25
VIEWED: 21001
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AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:52 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
On Atherton as a weak villain: I wouldn't call him a poor villain so much as a banal one... and that's right in keeping with Whedon's vision of the 'Verse. If you examine the series, most of the "bad guys" aren't The Operative or Niska. They're people who are marginally more corrupt or marginally less moral than our heroes.

What bother me about Ath is that his banality is portrayed as so glaring that it seems odd for Inara not to have noticed it before.

Yes, that latter part is what chaves about it. His obvious unpleasantness contradicts Inara's good judgment. He's so over the top that the fight should be Inara's, but she ends up being so passive about it and her conversation with Mal on the subject is pushed to the background. If Atherton had a bit more depth or charm, her hesitancy would be more understandable. Or change the shuttle scene, to remove the implication that Inara actually likes Atherton and make it a matter of professional pride for her. But take away the contradiction!! (Dammit!)

Rance Burgess is similarly bad, but at least he has an egde of cruelty and real danger about him. Ath is a foregone conclusion and only the examination of the Mal/Inara conflict redeems his use at all.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Very true! I love that small glimpse at Banning's character when the old geezer says "'Course your daddy tells me it takes the space of
a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again." Now that's a loving father. Try imagine your father gossiping about you like that. What kind of emotionally abusive relationship is behind that? It certainly topples the old geezers heroic image for me that he would say that to Banning, no matter how bratty she was behaving. It's not all black and white, there. Which makes Atherton's portrayel all the more disappointing.

Huh? He was supposed to be her father? I didn't get that impression at all, only that he knows her father, and that she's spoiled rotten, and maybe deserves to be set down a little in her pride.

I never said he was her father. He references her father, implying that her father said such a thing about her, which leads me to the conclusion that Bannings father is one hell of a bad example.

She's not spoiled rotten, she's an unloved child (turned young adult) lashing out. Likely how she learned it at home.

The old geezer wasn't just telling her to back off, he was hitting her where it really hurts, which is kind of cruel.

Quote:

But I still agree that he shouldn't have walked away in the middle of trying to make a deal. Or rather, that there should have been consequences from Harrow's side for having done that. I really do think someone of Harrow's social standing would have taken that as a snub. Not allowing yourself to become distracted when you're talking to someone is business etiquette, which I think Mal is aware of. We're never given any indication that Mal doesn't know how to sell himself or his ship when he wants to; quite the opposite, in fact.

At that point, Harrow was far from convinced and Mal didn't have much by the way of arguments left. Taking a break at that point doesn't hurt him, much less so when he leaves Ath and Harrow to watch him dance with Inara - a hugely respectable person.

Following his impulse to separate Inara and Ath doesn't actually work against him, professionally, and I think he knows it.

GWEK

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:06 PM

Quote:
GWEK: a good point on how part of the episode is about where Mal's focus should be when it's on Inara.

But I still agree that he shouldn't have walked away in the middle of trying to make a deal. Or rather, that there should have been consequences from Harrow's side for having done that. I really do think someone of Harrow's social standing would have taken that as a snub. Not allowing yourself to become distracted when you're talking to someone is business etiquette, which I think Mal is aware of. We're never given any indication that Mal doesn't know how to sell himself or his ship when he wants to; quite the opposite, in fact.

I don't entirely disagree, although I'm not sure exactly how seriously Harrow takes anything. He seems like he's bored and wants to be entertained. It's quite possible he WOULD have felt snubbed by Mal if Mal hadn't "entertained" him.

And Mal, after all, is a graduate of the Han Solo School of Action Without Thought.

My point, I guess, is that I can see your point, but don't think it's a particularly glaring moment nonetheless.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

GWEK

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:09 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:
On Atherton as a weak villain: I wouldn't call him a poor villain so much as a banal one... and that's right in keeping with Whedon's vision of the 'Verse. If you examine the series, most of the "bad guys" aren't The Operative or Niska. They're people who are marginally more corrupt or marginally less moral than our heroes.

What bother me about Ath is that his banality is portrayed as so glaring that it seems odd for Inara not to have noticed it before.

Yes, that latter part is what chaves about it. His obvious unpleasantness contradicts Inara's good judgment. He's so over the top that the fight should be Inara's, but she ends up being so passive about it and her conversation with Mal on the subject is pushed to the background. If Atherton had a bit more depth or charm, her hesitancy would be more understandable. Or change the shuttle scene, to remove the implication that Inara actually likes Atherton and make it a matter of professional pride for her. But take away the contradiction!! (Dammit!)

Rance Burgess is similarly bad, but at least he has an egde of cruelty and real danger about him. Ath is a foregone conclusion and only the examination of the Mal/Inara conflict redeems his use at all.

The Atherton issue could have been fixed fairly easily, by implying that maybe they haven't seen each other for a year or something. A year can change someone fairly significantly, depending on the events. Maybe even "I'm sorry I haven't been able to see you since your father died" or something (and imply that now the weight of the family business is on his shoulders).

While I agree this is probably the most troubling aspect of the episode, it could have been fixed with maybe 5 lines if dialogue.

*****

Not to thread-jack, but we explored Atherton a little over at www.stillflying.net, during our second season. Check out episodes 2x08 and 2x09.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

GWEK

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:18 PM

By the way, to DMI: I really don't mean to say that you shouldn't re-write the ep, or that you shouldn't re-write to your specs, but keep this in mind: when an experienced writer appears to make "rookiee mistakes" there are often reasons (and sometimes, it's just that something didn't work, or that the director mucked with things), so worth exploring WHY those "failings" might have occurred.

Don't know if you're aware, but there was originally a completely different teaser for the episode (it involved Mal and Inara in a park or forest; I think he shoots a raccoon). Might be worth tracking down the script for that to see if the change had impact on the rest of the episode.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:19 PM

Ah. I see what you mean now. I never really thought about it that way. Usually when someone's spoiled, it's because their parents indulge them too much, and because she was acting snobbish that's what I assumed she was, despite the insult.

Of course, it could be the old man is exaggerating what her father has said about her, or twisting it, but that has less evidence.

Mal makes a number of social faux pas in the scene when Atherton and Inara approach. You may be right, but I don't think the way he reacts to Atherton and steps between the two would do much to further convince Harrow that he's respectable.

Except that, perhaps, Atherton's personality is well known to the community, and maybe taking an irrational dislike to him is considered a sign of good character?

Of course, that's not something Mal would be aware of, so the question is, is it in-character for him to risk the job on account of Inara?

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GWEK:

While I agree this is probably the most troubling aspect of the episode, it could have been fixed with maybe 5 lines if dialogue.

So true, so painfully true.

ZZETTA13

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:23 PM

What’s worst than being an asshole? Being an asshole that’s right ( as to say about Malcolm Reynolds).

I see your opinions for arguments sake DMI but Malcolm Reynolds is a captain that knows his opinions and commands won’t always be the popular ones. Does that make him an Ahole? Who of us haven’t had a boss that’s been one of those now and then? Even when talking off the top of his head doesn’t mean that what Malcolm says will be viewed with favor by every crewmember.

The truth about captain Reynolds bite is that his crew forgive him for it anyway, hence I don’t have a problem with Kaylee just forgiving Mal about his rude remark about walking around dressed like a sheep in the engine room. He did say in the pilot episode that he was a “Mean old man.”

With the exception of Zoe most everyone on Serenity has felt the sting of the captains tongue. They may be aggravated momentarily then get on with what they are supposed to do.

Also I don’t have a problem with Sir Warrick and the older gentleman that comes to Kaylee’s rescue at the party. They are just filler characters and they complete their purpose.

The only thing that I am in a bit of a spot with in the SHINDIG episode was where Atherton Wing, having Mal at blades end gets distracted by Inara. The captain seizes this distraction and turns the tide on his opponent. I don’t see that as a fair duel. Malcolm is clearly beaten and if it weren’t for the persuasion of the companion would have been run through the heart.

Just a minor detail, one that bothered me for a while but still a great episode!

Z

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:34 PM

Oh, I'm sure Zoe's felt it too, and she's probably decked him for it.

Yeah, the duel! The way it ends bothers me too, because it makes Inara submissive and turns her into one of those damsels willing to sacrifice herself and her freedom to stop her evil love interest.

I'd like to be clear that I never had any problem with the Kaylee and Mal storyline in this episode... This episode is actually one that I really like, and I've surprised myself with agreeing how many flaws there are.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 4:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Bytemite:
Ah. I see what you mean now. I never really thought about it that way. Usually when someone's spoiled, it's because their parents indulge them too much, and because she was acting snobbish that's what I assumed she was, despite the insult.

I don't think children usually lash out at others because they are indulged too much, usually that indulgence is a direct accomplice of neglect, lack of communication or insecurity in the parents. Is my theory from watching some "spoiled" children. They're usually deeply unhappy.

Quote:

Of course, it could be the old man is exaggerating what her father has said about her, or twisting it, but that has less evidence.

Could be, but if he was twisting the words and Bannings father is actually totally happy about his daughter's busy sex life, she wouldn't walk off like that. He could also just have used "people" instead of "your daddy". It seems like a very deliberate jibe, the way he says it.

Think about it, if your relationship with your father is fine the insult "You daddy says you're a slut" wouldn't make you walk off like that. "People say you're a slut" might be more effective to humiliate you, but that's not the angle Harrow chooses.

Quote:

Mal makes a number of social faux pas in the scene when Atherton and Inara approach. You may be right, but I don't think the way he reacts to Atherton and steps between the two would do much to further convince Harrow that he's respectable.

Mal doesn't step between them until he has outside motivation (Ath's hand tightening on Inara's arm) but his faux-ingratiating manner before that ("I-nara!") may be Mal's idea of friendly small-talk - irritate Inara while implying they're good acquaintences to Harrow. He welcomes the respectability-enhancer, until he interrupts his own negotiations for the dance to get Inara away from Ath.

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