Rewriting Shindig

POSTED BY: DMI
UPDATED: Wednesday, February 18, 2009 12:25
VIEWED: 21001
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AGENTROUKA

Monday, January 26, 2009 10:25 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:
Its not an angle I believe. I think Kaylee has an obvious role in the ship's business, but Mal might mention it when he is mad at her to heighten the tension between them.

I just think it would be out of character for Mal to attack her on such a level. An impatient rebuff of her fashion-ambitions fits logically into his complicated relationship with The Wealthy. There is no logical basis for Mal to pretend that Kaylee's job isn't extremely important to his business.

In other words, there is no motivation for him to belittle her professionally.

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Maybe it isn't needed and insulting her appearance and lower class status is all that is needed, but I do think that Wash experiences this need to be a greater part of the business in the pilot Serenity when Jayne insults "the risky sittin'" he did and in War Stories when he insists on going on the deal with Mal.

Wash's case is different, some of it is rooted in his relationship with Zoe, some in it just being true: Wash is as legally culpable as Mal and Zoe, and Jayne was belittling the risk Wash takes, even though it's as high as Jayne's.

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I think Mal could say as little as "...you'd be like a sheep walking on its hind legs. You keep to the engine room, that's what I pay you for."

But it doesn't fit into the context of the conversation there. Kaylee is going on about the pretty dresses and Inara's world. That has nothing to do with business, either way.

If Mal said it like that, it'd sound more like he's telling her that she can't have a private life outside slaving for him, which is even farther from the truth.

The only way you could connect that line to business would be if Kaylee somehow insisted on coming along on a job (But why would she?) and Mal telling her to forget it. And he would have every right to, because the engine work IS what he pays her for.

And don't think you were offending me!

How could you have? I just love discussing the show and enjoy the opportunity here!

HOPERULES

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:01 AM

Guess I'm boring. I really like Shindig that way it is.

May have been on the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one.

WYTCHCROFT

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:15 AM

it's interesting on the dvd com (for War stories? Train Job?) and in interviews Joss has talked about interference with the 'villains' to make them more 'villain-ey'.

True or not i see where folks are coming from re Ath - coz it's the same with Rance Burgess too. But i think Shindig is actually subtle in some ways - there are checks and balances and twists, with the minor characters, that HOG lacks for example.

As for the plot and structure - well it could be tighter but there are a lot of Austenpuns going on, and that's always the rule - give it up for the gag.

It's kind've a Trek ep too!

It's MAL that says (a lot) "The job comes first" but them's hidey words and he knows it too.

JEWELSTAITEFAN

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:30 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by DMI:
I want to start out by saying that I love Firefly and Serenity and I'm a huge Browncoat. I don't want it to seem as though I'm nit-picking simply because we've only got a few episodes and I know I tend to watch them over and over again. If anything I think that attests to the quality of this show. However, with that said, I have always felt a little weird about the episode "Shindig." I like it well enough and even though it is different from other episodes what with the ball and the sword fight and all, something never sat right with me.

As a watched it with my girlfriend recently, both of us are creative writing majors at FSU and, we started talking about it and I think I figured it out. The problems, no offense to Espenson whose obviously made it farther in the industry than I have, are in the writing.

I typed this all up and it was way too long so this is me condensing it.

Problems with Shindig:
1)Subplot between Capt and Kaylee isn't sufficiently resolved with him buying her a dress and afterward is just dropped
2)Sir Warrick and the old man who comes to Kaylee's rescue are very similar characters that crowd the set
3)The two above reasons along with a scattering of scenes about what the crew is doing back home make the plot seem scattered
4)(This one is just a minor hole) The Captain wouldn't walk away from making a deal with Warrick to dance with Inara and piss off her date. The job always comes first with him.

I think I have a solution that would make the entire episode flow better, tightening the narrative and strengthen the Kaylee subplot.
1) The capt insults Kaylee in a way that not only implies she can't dress up fancy but that her job is only as a mechanic and isn't a real part of the business.
2)Combine Sir Warrick and the old man into one character. They blend together a little already because they both have a mild distaste for the snooty super-rich around them, but the old man is more likable because he saves Kaylee and has better lines. This way Kaylee is the one who actually makes the contact for the deal and is playing a crucial role in the business while Mal is off goofing around with Inara. Plus (and Espenson couldn't have known this) the old man just came off as a stronger and better character than the fat guy with the sash. This would also plug the plot hole of number four listed above because Mal wouldn't be abandoning his work.

I think this would do it without having to cut any of the great scenes back at Firefly, particularly River interacting with Badger and the post-sex scene between Wash and Zoey. Thats all great classic stuff and if something had to be cut or shortened, I'd vote for the poker game.
-e

A blog on the struggles of an unpublished writer: http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

I disagree.
Your problem #1. Badger needs Mal specifically because of Mal's pretentious standing in society, which was the reason Badger was uppity in Pilot Serenity. Mal needs Kaylee for the fact that she will happily wear the frilly dress (available on short notice, opposed to Zoe's slinky type dress), and not cause a fight at the ball. Mal needs her, and she wins, therefore it is dropped. Mal admits in this way that Kaylee is inteed needed in exactly the way Mal had mistakenly said she would not be needed (wearing a dress like that). This means much more than mere words from Mal - he could not make it more plain or clear that he was very wrong. It would be rude of Kaylee to not accept it.
problem #2. No, they are different. The guy who saves Kaylee (formerly Dash Riprock) is not impressed with Banning, but Harrow fairl;y revels in his nobility and title, just is not impressed with Atherton. Harrow would not go to somebody's rescue. He only second's Mal because Mal messed up Atherton's makeup.
your problem #4. Mal di not walk away. The deal was not happening. Mal and Harrow were seeing eye level regarding lowlife so

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 8:52 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

your problem #4. Mal di not walk away. The deal was not happening. Mal and Harrow were seeing eye level regarding lowlife sociopaths, but Atherton's interruption was blocking the progress of negotiations. Mal's dance with Inara was not solely to ittitate Ath, but to do so to gain value in Harrow's eyes, and to lure Ath away friom Harrow - all towards the goal of The Job. Irritating Ath (and maybe Inara) was just gravy.

I'll disagree with that one a little. A considerabl part of Mal's reason for the dance likely had to do with the way Ath was gripping Inara's arm. We visibly see Mal reacting to that and coupled with his punch after the dance, I think we can safely conclude that Mal has some emotional stakes there that would inspire him to act a little irrational.

AGENTROUKA

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 9:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by wytchcroft:
But i think Shindig is actually subtle in some ways - there are checks and balances and twists, with the minor characters, that HOG lacks for example.

Very true! I love that small glimpse at Banning's character when the old geezer says "'Course your daddy tells me it takes the space of
a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again." Now that's a loving father. Try imagine your father gossiping about you like that. What kind of emotionally abusive relationship is behind that? It certainly topples the old geezers heroic image for me that he would say that to Banning, no matter how bratty she was behaving. It's not all black and white, there. Which makes Atherton's portrayel all the more disappointing.

AURAPTOR

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 11:25 AM

Kaylee's a simple girl, with simple wants and desires. She likes strawberries, sex and engines. It's not a knock on our dear mechanic, the girl just can't help it. Buying her the dress was indeed all the Captain needed to do. Nothing buys byegones like cash, as Jayne says. Or in this case, frilly dance hall dresses. And also, Cap knows a good mechanic is worth a lot out in the black, maybe more than a good pilot. That was made clear when he fired Bester and hired Kaylee, on the spot. He'd never insult Kaylee by implying she was ONLY a mechanic.

As for the Captain dancing w/ Inara, I got no problem w/ that either. He likely feels the job is in hand, as all he really had to do was find Sir Warrick and establish who he was. Badger had already done most of the heavy lifting, so to say. Mal's obviously jealous of Inara's 'date', and wants to tweak the guy ( and Inara ) by running a little interference into their evening. It's classic Mal.

It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

GWEK

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 2:58 PM

While I appreciate your desire to fix the "flaws" in SHINDIG, I'm not sure that they're all, y'know, flaws.

Quote:
1)Subplot between Capt and Kaylee isn't sufficiently resolved with him buying her a dress and afterward is just dropped

Arguably true, but this conflict is, at best, the C-story of the episode. It essentially serves to inject a little character drama early in the episode (which it does successfully). It also provides us with some entertaining scenes and illustrates character for both Kaylee and Mal (in this case, the fact that Mal can be thoughtless and abrasive but is still not a bad guy is pivotal to the plot).

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I'd argue that the Mal/Kaylee stuff may not necessarily BE a sub-plot requiring an arc of its own, with a solid conclusion.

2)Sir Warrick and the old man who comes to Kaylee's rescue are very similar characters that crowd the set

Mark Twain, as I like to call him, serves a number of important functions that he couldn't necessarily serve if he were Harrow, or if he didn't exist at all. Consider:

1) Kaylee talking to the handsome boys is a very different angle than Kaylee talking to a mix of handsome boys and an old man (and treating them all equally--this goes back to her interactions with Book from the pilot on).

2) If Harrow comes to her rescue, he becomes "chivalrous," which gives him and Mal a common bond that Esponson probably didn't want. It also clutters the relationship between Mal and Harrow with needless baggage.

3) Too much coincidence? Really, wouldn't some folk in the audience almost say "Is there anyone at this party who's NOT Harrow?"

4) Kaylee is never intended to be part of the negotiation. She's Mal's way through the door, and that's it. To have her more strongly involved complicates that storyline needlessly.

While I agree on the one hand that the character landscape is a bit cluttered (something Whedon and Co never shy away from), I think combining the characters would needlessly clutter the character and plot business and might make thing seem too "forced coincidental."

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3)The two above reasons along with a scattering of scenes about what the crew is doing back home make the plot seem scattered

You say too scattered; I say "not contrived." Different strokes.

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4)(This one is just a minor hole) The Captain wouldn't walk away from making a deal with Warrick to dance with Inara and piss off her date.

The job always comes first with him.

Except when it doesn't.

Which is surprisingly often, when you look at the series closely. Remember, Mal often says he never runs away from a fight. :)

Seriously, though, Mal is a character, which means he simulates humanity and is going to be somewhat inconstant. More to the point: he often does stupid things, especially when Inara is involved.

And, to some extent, isn't the fact that a bit of his focus is on Inara when it SHOULD be on the job part of the point of the episode?

On Atherton as a weak villain: I wouldn't call him a poor villain so much as a banal one... and that's right in keeping with Whedon's vision of the 'Verse. If you examine the series, most of the "bad guys" aren't The Operative or Niska. They're people who are marginally more corrupt or marginally less moral than our heroes.

What bother me about Ath is that his banality is portrayed as so glaring that it seems odd for Inara not to have noticed it before.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

DMI

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:26 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:
Also this would require intentional meanness by Mal, which he would not do, not only to Kaylee, but not even to Jayne except for when Jayne specifically calls for it.

Mal is absolutely intentionally mean to everyone on the crew and a lot of people off. He may have regretted what he said to Kaylee but that doesn't mean he wasn't being intentional. He knows what he said and its his way of keeping everyone at arm's length.

It's a pleasure to see all the discussion this little imaginative jaunt has engendered. Stay shiny folks.
-e

A blog on the struggles of an unpublished writer: http://www.blogiversity.org/blogs/dmi/default.aspx

BYTEMITE

Tuesday, January 27, 2009 3:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Very true! I love that small glimpse at Banning's character when the old geezer says "'Course your daddy tells me it takes the space of
a schoolboy's wink to get you out of it again." Now that's a loving father. Try imagine your father gossiping about you like that. What kind of emotionally abusive relationship is behind that? It certainly topples the old geezers heroic image for me that he would say that to Banning, no matter how bratty she was behaving. It's not all black and white, there. Which makes Atherton's portrayel all the more disappointing.

Huh? He was supposed to be her father? I didn't get that impression at all, only that he knows her father, and that she's spoiled rotten, and maybe deserves to be set down a little in her pride.

GWEK: a good point on how part of the episode is about where Mal's focus should be when it's on Inara.

But I still agree that he shouldn't have walked away in the middle of trying to make a deal. Or rather, that there should have been consequences from Harrow's side for having done that. I really do think someone of Harrow's social standing would have taken that as a snub. Not allowing yourself to become distracted when you're talking to someone is business etiquette, which I think Mal is aware of. We're never given any indication that Mal doesn't know how to sell himself or his ship when he wants to; quite the opposite, in fact.

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