Were we left-leanin' peeps and Libertarians spoiled by the last quarter of the 20th Century?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 19, 2026 00:41
VIEWED: 4659
PAGE 7 of 8
Quote:Chrisisall's Magic 8-Ball says:
Originally posted by SignyM:
I have yet to see capitalism. It's as much a fantasy as communism.
"It is decidedly so"
Chrisisall
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Appears I have quite a bit of catching up to do. ...
Anyway ... with all this 'line drawing' of who belongs where I haven't seen any reference to any actual so-called nanny state like say Sweden, the Netherlands or even (gasp) CANADA !. And the framing (as proposed by Geezer - who else 
) is all wrong, nothing is being 'forced' on everyone - oddly enough they vote for their particular form of government and economy.
So, out of curiosity, does anyone here consider those countries the prime example of the horrible government forcing the collective good on everyone against their will ?
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Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.
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Quote:Sweden, no...Netherlands, no...Canada.....
Originally posted by rue:
So, out of curiosity, does anyone here consider those countries the prime example of the horrible government forcing the collective good on everyone against their will ?
Stillthinkingisall
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Chris, Is All
But, to get back to the topic, I didn't have time before to go into detail about what I meant.
Where I am going to end up with after some while is this: will the next generation - the ones you love and care for - have a better world than the one you grew up in, about the same, or worse ? Because if your generation couldn't fix the problems, what makes you think the next generation can ? The very same things that stopped you, will stop them, unless you do something about it.
Geezer's POV is based on two linked but completely false notions: One is that evolution (including social evolution) is an 'improvement' process; the other is that the world we live in is substantially the best ever.
Evolution of any kind isn't an 'improvement' process. It goes down blind alleys for the most trivial of reasons that just happen to be in effect at the time. And the cost of those blind alleys is death.
Geezer wants you to think about the broad span of history. In the very broad span of human history - 150,000 years - how many hundreds of thousands of families, tribes, groups, villages, communities, and civilizations went extinct ? They are gone - without a trace. Can you look back at that and say survival is inevitable, let alone improvement ?
The other thing is whether or not this world is the best ever, the pinnacle, the ultimate expression of 'human nature'. Best ever for whom ? Best ever for what ? Are families any closer ? Is there more tolerance ? More cooperation ? Do you have more actual power over your own life, or are you just trying to fit into 'the system' ? Does everything equate to money, and if not, is that the way we should be running our society ?
Or, maybe you do look at the world with its vast population, extreme poverty for the many and vast wealth for the few, dwindling resources in the pursuit of making more and more saleable stuff - and call it good. Then in your mind we are living in the best of all possible worlds. But many, many suffering people would disagree.
But let's say that social evolution, though halting, reversible and uneven, IS a process of improvement, no matter what you do, or don't do. The Dark Ages lasted for centuries before things got better. Are you willing to let the problems go for your loved ones because, in some vast due time things will get better on their own ?
Which brings me back to where I started: will the next generation - the ones you love and care for - have a better world than the one you grew up in, about the same, or worse ?
***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Sweden, no...Netherlands, no...Canada.....
Stillthinkingisall
OH, CANADA ! ...
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Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.
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Umm, if they voted FOR it, how then could it be against their will ?
Hell, there's things here I might vote for in practice even though I am adamantly opposed to the concept, simply because the real world is not a perfect place - socialised medicine would suck, but at the very LEAST it would be an improvement on the nightmare we have now, and might in the end lead to a for-once decent set of private practice as a useful alternative and competitor.
Culturally, also, Sweden and the Netherlands have more of what I what almost call a Clan-Bond throughout their entire society, as well as the concept of "enough stuff" - which we in the (sociopathic) States do not seem to have.
Of course, that goes back to the concept of my idea of cutting out stuff till folk start saying "hey, we need that!".
The Swedes kinda did that in reverse, and if they are as a whole comfortable with it, then that is what they want - a rather different story than here, where a REALLY substantial majority do NOT want something, and the Gov goes ahead and does it anyway...
That shit would NOT fly in Sweden, not for a week, maybe not even for five minutes - generally a laid back folk, but I would not mess with them, given a choice, they DO have teeth under that silky coat of fur you know.
(Yes, I'm kidding... 
)
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Where I am going to end up with after some while is this: will the next generation - the ones you love and care for - have a better world than the one you grew up in, about the same, or worse ? Because if your generation couldn't fix the problems, what makes you think the next generation can ? The very same things that stopped you, will stop them, unless you do something about it.
WELL put.
But that's what I do - try in every way imagineable to fix things, up to and including teaching future generations the methods and means to continue that duty long after I myself am worm food.
As I am fond of saying, my Nieces deserve something more as a legacy than the sum of our generations failures.
Drastic changes can and often do lead to catastrophic failures, and such isn't really the way me and mine operate - but in the end, which one wins, the sidewalk, or the tree root?
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:The following is for opinion purposes only; please do not take this as fact.
Originally posted by rue:
will the next generation - the ones you love and care for - have a better world than the one you grew up in, about the same, or worse ?
At the age I am now, my son will be experiencing a different world...TV's will be big & cheap, housing reasonable & available, jobs plentiful but not very well paying, and food & health care expensive as hell. Creative folk (such as he) will be able to make out well for themselves by creating close-knit friend & family units that will be the re-emergence of the extended families of times & cultures past. So...different.
In my son's son's lifetime we will see the death of corporate personhood...
Then comes Starfleet.
Chrisisall
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Live long and prosper, then.
***************************************************************
Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice.
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Quote:The entire American political system, right and 'left' is looney.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Okay, are you actually agreeing that the major icons of the liberals are part of the looney left, pretty much making the entire left the looney left, or is this just more of your sarcasm? Wish we had aemoticon you could use to designate, 'cause somtimes it's hard to tell.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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