The Destruction of the US Dollar
POSTED BY: JaynezTown
UPDATED: Thursday, October 16, 2008 00:43
VIEWED: 21107
PAGE 12 of 17
Quote:Bless you.
Originally posted by SergeantX:
zeitgeist.
Tissueisall
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:By this do you mean my belief is that if "the Fed" didn't exist, something like it (a centralized agency) would have to take its place?
.... and how could you say otherwise?, given that "planning progress" is at the heart of your political zeitgeist.
We see how well that worked for good 'ole Louis, right?
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:By this do you mean my belief is that if "the Fed" didn't exist, something like it (a centralized agency) would have to take its place?
.... and how could you say otherwise?, given that "planning progress" is at the heart of your political zeitgeist.
We see how well that worked for good 'ole Louis, right?
By "this" I mean that when you say "we should", what you really mean is that the majority should decide what the rest of us must do.
That quote about those who would "Plan Progress", rather than merely let it happen, just struck me as particularly insightful description of the differences in mindset. You seem to be (correct me if I'm wrong) on the side of things that says we can't have real progress without conformity, and that what "we should" do, is best decided centrally and universally.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"Well you're right and you're wrong there Rue. True, you're not going to walk out of a WalMart with groceries for the week without notes, but their worth is based only on people's perception of what their value is."
My point exactly - but it's also true of "gold, frankincense and myrrh" (whatever happened to frankincense and myrrh ? they're so out of the picture they're not even quaint), silver, copper, platinum (which used to be called 'bastard silver' b/c of its ultra-high high melting point that made it impossible to refine and form, and which was so worthless it was used as ballast), titanium, diamonds (whose value comes not from actual scarcity b/c diamonds are mined by the front-loader-full, but from tight control of the supply), rubies, emeralds ... wampum, Roman coins, spices from the Far East, salt (yes, salt, it's where the word 'salary' comes from), tulip bulbs ... or pretty much anything else that's been denominated as 'valuable' at one time or another.
In terms of value, it's ALL perception and circumstance. Gold is no exception.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
SargeX, my view in brief... Once human societies get past the size where people can deal directly with each other... say, about 100 people... then certain things happen that are beyond individual action: the division of labor and specializaton, development of complex language and writing, trade and migration, etc.
One of those trends is the concentration of power.
The anarchist solution (HK, Frem) is that if people are taught to exercise their individual authority then people will be more or less equal and societies will not become distorted by huge differences in power. In my view, the concentration of power is beyond individual action to reverse, and mechanisms need to be in place which aggressively and positively place power in the hands of individuals.
Democracy is one such system which deliberately places political authority into individual's hands. The internet is a system that allows free communication, and thus provides anyone with an avenue towards the power of pursuasion. Certain religions (like UU) encourage individual ethical responsibility. Economic democracy is a system that requires people to take a proactive stance towards production. That, combined with teaching and healing individuals, might create a stable society which does not develop into an unstable hierarcy.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
mechanisms need to be in place which aggressively and positively place power in the hands of individuals.
One of those mechanisms is the right and ability to possess weapons capable of levelling the playing field.
Sure, it's far from being the only one, but still, that IS one of them, and should remain so.
A 110lb little old lady with a Bersa Thunder is more than a match for a 280lb crackhound with a crowbar, but take away that Bersa, and she's just one more victim.
Not sayin they're a whole solution, but it's certainly a part of one.
"The Right to Buy Weapons is The Right to be Free."
A.E. Van Vogt - The Weapon Shops of Isher.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
In my view, the concentration of power is beyond individual action to reverse
Amusing side note barely relevant to the topic...
The City Council has really overstepped themselves in a grandiose and overblown fashion recently, and managed to piss off just about the ENTIRE CITY at them this time.
Which is, without an ounce of doubt, going to lead to a recall effort in the near future, and one of the names put forth as a replacement for these creeps.....
Your friendly neighborhood Anarchist, and why ?
Because the locals have individually decided that no matter who else they put on that council, they can absolutely DEPEND on one stubborn obstructionist jackass to completely sandbag and roadblock anything that does not directly benefit the townies - not to mention the very IDEA of me actually being ON the council (after the Walter fiasco) scares the everliving shit out of them, and the locals firmly believe that politicians of any stripe SHOULD live in fear of their constituents.
The really bizarre part of it, is that nowhere within the regs does it require my consent to put me on the ballot or elect me, and they already got enough signatories *and* votes, to do it.
So in the next couple months I guess we get to put your theory to the test, at least on a small scale - I still haven't decided, should this come to pass (and at this point, there's little doubt) whether to show up and sandbag em, or stay home and deny them a Quorum...
I think it can be done, if that concentration of power pisses off ENOUGH individual folk, they'll work actively to break it, all just a matter of how much crap folk are willing to take.
So, I guess we will see.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Democracy is one such system which deliberately places political authority into individual's hands.
How are you seeing that exactly? Unrestricted democracy is the antithesis of individual sovereignty. Democracy establishes the premise that the will of the majority supersedes that of the individual. That's why, in a deliberate attempt to protect individual rights, democracy is only adopted in the US in a limited way - primarily as a tool for choosing representatives.
I've found many of your positions grounded in the premise of unlimited democracy, ie if the majority wills it, it should be so. It's a continuum, and not as black and white as we all like to pretend, so I'm sure you're willing to set some limits on democratic authority. On the other end of things, I believe democracy should be a tool of last resort - only to be applied to situations where universal conformity is the only viable solution.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Which gets back to the implementation of advanced technology (face recognition, at-a-distance disablement, broad-based electronic snooping, WMD, even pre-emptive brain scanning).
One of those mechanisms is the right and ability to possess weapons capable of levelling the playing field. Sure, it's far from being the only one, but still, that IS one of them, and should remain so. A 110lb little old lady with a Bersa Thunder is more than a match for a 280lb crackhound with a crowbar, but take away that Bersa, and she's just one more victim.
Not sayin they're a whole solution, but it's certainly a part of one.
I agree with you Frem. By themselves guns will not work. We need a complete armamentarium to counter these preversions of power, and that means persuading our fellow citizens, swinging elections the right way (power of the government purse), and more.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"A 110lb little old lady with a Bersa Thunder is more than a match for a 280lb crackhound with a crowbar, but take away that Bersa, and she's just one more victim."
But with that gun is she a match for the power of government to spy on anyone and everyone, any place and time, for any reason or no reason at all? Is she a match for the big oil multinational consortium ?
Gotta' keep saying it - the whole idea of separate individuals with handguns as a bastion of freedom is ------------- stupid.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME