The Destruction of the US Dollar
POSTED BY: JaynezTown
UPDATED: Thursday, October 16, 2008 00:43
VIEWED: 21107
PAGE 6 of 17
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
"Do you want to be a Citizen , or a 'subject' ?..."
And uhhhh, are we supposed to rally around this, at this point ? Have you given up on facts ? Is this your final argument ?
No , it's your 'final' choice...
You'll just have to live with the results , should you not choose wisely and well...
You and yours can be poked and forked , too , according to your own desires...
Can't you read , or do you just not get it ?
To reiterate :
That's intrinsic value , based on chemistry and physics , which are holding up pretty well , along with certain other immutable Laws of the Universe...
Tulip Bulbs don't have quite so many unique properties , OR Industrial Applications...
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They why don't you reply to my (fact-filled) post which contains a whole lot more than slogans and personal attacks ? I think I do a pretty god job explaining where the 'value' of gold comes from. And no, it isn't intrinsic. Certainly not more intrinsic than silver (whose price tanked as demand for film went down) or less intrinsic than copper (whose price went up as technology and building expanded).
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yes, gold has had a historic value. But the only "intrinsic" value that you can point to is the fact that rich people seem to value it. So you're basing your valuation on the belief and opinion of others. And values based on "opinion" or "belief" is still speculation. Put it this way: If gold were so intrinsically valuable, why would it's price (in USD) fluctuate from $850 in 1980 to $253 in 1999?
Now , you see there Lawrence , you can't even tell a damn lie...
This is disappointin' as hell...
I didn't point to rich folk owning gold as the ONLY
reason it has and holds value...
Quite the contrary...
There's the intrinsic value , based on chemistry and physics , which are holding up pretty well , along with certain other immutable Laws of the Universe...
What do they know that you seem not to apprehend ?
Clearly , they've done their research...And , apparently , you still haven't...
You can look it up , later...
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O2B- Using gold to back currency does not ensure either stability or prosperity. In the 1890s when the USA was on the gold standard, it experienced a depression as severe (some say) as the Great Depression
Quote:http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/depression.html
In its impact on industry and employment, the depression of the 1890s was on a par with the Great Depression of the 1930s. In some places it began before 1890, in a deep agricultural crisis that hit Southern cotton-growing regions and the Great Plains in the late 1880s. The shock hit Wall Street and urban areas in 1893, as part of a massive worldwide economic crisis. A quarter of the nation's railroads went bankrupt; in some cities, unemployment among industrial workers exceeded 20 or even 25 percent
The economy was being strangled by the scarcity of money. The silver standard was proposed instead. But there were those whe feared the loss of the "intrinsic" value of gold. To which William Jennings Bryan replied
Quote:http://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5354/
we shall answer their demands for a gold standard by saying to them, you shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold.
So when we were on the gold standard it was seen as the cause of the problem.
I'll get to the real cause later.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
They why don't you reply to my (fact-filled) post which contains a whole lot more than slogans and personal attacks ? I think I do a pretty god job explaining where the 'value' of gold comes from. And no, it isn't intrinsic. Certainly not more intrinsic than silver (whose price tanked as demand for film went down) or less intrinsic than copper (whose price went up as technology and building expanded).
Ignorance is your natural Right , if you so choose...
Look up your own facts...You need 'em more than a lot of Folk...
You cannot change the unique physical and chemical properties of Silver , or Gold , or any other Metallic Element...Immutable Law ! ...and , intrinsic Value...
If Silver is cheaply valued versus bank notes , that's the ideal time to buy !
Buy low...Sell high...Make BREAD...We're going to need Bread...
LOTS of Bread...
Siggy just made another point in my favor...There were massive , monopolistic , corporate forces , (Bankers , particularly , but by no means , exclusively) at work to debase the economy during that timeframe...
That's when Congress , at the heed of bankers , particularly , had made a first pass at imposing an Income Tax on this country...It took a bit of time , but before the decade was half over , the Supreme Court had ruled the income tax UN-CONSTITUTIONAL...
If the 1890's were so depressed , why were they known as the 'Gay 90's' ?
Wasn't because they were 'kwear' !
Actually , the period from 1890-1914 were known as 'the Good Years' !
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Quote:
If Silver is cheaply valued versus bank notes , that's the ideal time to buy !
O2B- you're conflating at least five things (maybe more, once I read your posts carefully): intrinsic value, taxes, control of currency, interest/ debt, prosperity. But for this particular point- if silver has an intrinsic value, it's exchange value shouldn't rise and fall either. PS please read my post about the cross of gold.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B- you're conflating about four things. But if silver has an intrinsic value, it's exchange value shouldn't rise and fall either. PS please read my post about the cross of gold.
The exchange value does rise and fall according to supply and demand , to a degree , but the larger force at work is
'the money supply'---Controlled by Private , Central Banksters---The Federal Reserve , and the number of its Notes allowed into circulation...
Still , the intrinsic value of the True Substance , the Metal itself , does not change , because of its Elemental Physical & Chemical Properties...
Like , as an example , what's the Melting Point of Tungsten ?
Go look it up ! It's one of the things that gives that Element its Intrinsic Value , and makes it Unique in that particular , intrinsic , way...
'Nuff said...YMMV !
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O2B- for someone who seems to be aware of monopolistic manipulations, your knowledge of their history is about as deep as a slogan.
THE GAY NINETEIS
Gay Nineties is an American term that refers to the decade of the 1890s.
The decade was a period of extremely exceptional economic expansion, and, in particular, of rapid wealth gains in New York City and Boston. The American empire of trade was at one of its zeniths, and cities were growing rapidly. While the same decade saw an explosion of immigration to the United States from less economically prosperous lands, and consequently no gaiety for the working classes it was a period of vast wealth for a newly emergent "society set". The railroads, the agricultural depression of the Southern United States, and the dominance of the United States in South American markets and the Caribbean meant that industrialists of New England were doing very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Nineties
You might also want to read The Great Gatsby and Anna Karenina to see how the wealthy class' experience can be totally divorced from everyday reality. Don't confuse one with the other.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B- for someone who seems to be aware of monopolistic manipulations, your knowledge of their history is about as deep as a slogan.
THE GAY NINETEIS
Gay Nineties is an American term that refers to the decade of the 1890s.
The decade was a period of extremely exceptional economic expansion, and, in particular, of rapid wealth gains in New York City and Boston. The American empire of trade was at one of its zeniths, and cities were growing rapidly. While the same decade saw an explosion of immigration to the United States from less economically prosperous lands, and consequently no gaiety for the working classes it was a period of vast wealth for a newly emergent "society set". The railroads, the agricultural depression of the Southern United States, and the dominance of the United States in South American markets and the Caribbean meant that industrialists of New England were doing very well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Nineties
You might also want to read The Great Gatsby and Anna Karenina to see how the wealthy class' experience can be totally divorced from everyday reality. Don't confuse one with the other.
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How is it that you can be so Adept at making my points , and yet , so Unaware of it...
Acquisition of Capital , and True Wealth , was continuing unabated...
The wealthy , AND , the extensive , Large , Middle Class were making great gains in both True Wealth and in Productivity...
If the lower , immigrant classes did not perceive gains to be made by being here , why were so many of them getting on the boat ?
Many of them seized the opportunities that were abundant here in this 'Land Of Opportunity' , and consequently , became much Wealthier themselves...There were innumerable 'Rags To Riches' stories...
Hope is an easy 'sell' when it's so Abundant...Hmmm , and all this happened when ?
When the United States still had Lawful Money , based upon the specified Metals...
You refer me to works of FICTION to bolster your arguments ?
Thanks for that !
Now , even most dung-headed idjits can see why you are 'poked and forked'...You roll over , show your teats , and beg for it...
What a whiner !
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I refer you to works of fiction because the concept of The Gay Nineties is also a work of fiction.
It seems to be that you're denying great swaths of economic facts in order to bolster your view of "scrip money" as being the root of all evil. e.g.
the fact that there was an economic panic in 1893
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_of_1893
that high percentage of people were unemployed
http://projects.vassar.edu/1896/depression.html
That protests were occurring all over the country
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cripple_Creek_miners'_strike_of_1894
http://www.nebraskahistory.org/publish/publicat/timeline/labor-day-par
ade-1894.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coxey's_Army
That places you in the ranks of the ignorant (at best) or the delusional (at worst) and certainly not worth my time.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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