The Destruction of the US Dollar
POSTED BY: JaynezTown
UPDATED: Thursday, October 16, 2008 00:43
VIEWED: 21107
PAGE 5 of 17
O2B- Because gold doesn't corrode, conducts metal and is easily smelted it is useful for SOME things, such as electronic contacts. (OTOH, nothing disinfects like silver.) But the current value of gold has nothing to do with it's utility and more do do with speculative value. To reiterate Rue's point: to a man dying of thirst, water is more precious than gold.
I'm not denying gold's historic value. But there may come a time when something else becomes more valuable than gold, simply due to changing circumstances. Food, for instance.
Don't assume that because things have been a certain way they will continue in the same vein indefinitely.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:My view exactly.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Don't assume that because things have been a certain way they will continue in the same vein indefinitely.
"Change is the essential process of all existence."
Spockisall
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B- Because gold doesn't corrode, conducts metal and is easily smelted it is useful for SOME things, such as electronic contacts. (OTOH, nothing disinfects like silver.) But the current value of gold has nothing to do with it's utility and more do do with speculative value. To reiterate Rue's point: to a man dying of thirst, water is more precious than gold.
But , if he had a dollar's worth of gold , or a dollar's worth of silver , or something besides a piece of cotton rag on hand , he'd possibly be able to get his drink of water...If he had something of intrinsic worth to trade for something of intrinsic worth , the water , then he wouldn't be 'dying' , perhaps ? Your guy was dying because he only had a Federal Reserve bank 'note' to trade...When those become 'worthless' , they'll have something else to offer , and an 'inducement' for people to trade in those notes for the next fashionable phony 'money'...Also controlled by Central Bankers ! The United States has no Sovereignty without its own sovereign , Lawful Money , a UNIT of which is a specified Amount of a clearly-defined Metal !
Still , you and Rue have one thing in common in that little allegory...Logic failure ! It's a fallacious argument , and your 'dying man' is made of straw...
The current value of gold has EVERYTHING to do with its Utility ; because of its unique and intrinsic properties , it is ALWAYS in demand !
It's also in demand because wealthy people who know the difference between a 'fiat' currency and TRUE SUBSTANCE need it to preserve their 'wealth'...Take a look at the selloff of private jets , yachts , and 'jumbo' real estate holdings...They're being traded in so their owners can diversify their wealth with metals...The price of Metals is going up , while the 'value' of the US DOLLAR (Federal Reserve Note variety) is headed South...That's really not 'speculation' , it's AWARENESS...
You do know there's an inherent difference between price and value , don't you ?
You're thinking of the 'price' of gold in relation to Federal Reserve Notes , when you say 'current value'.
A Federal Reserve Note is NOT a Dollar...It's a piece of scrip , on a cotton rag...THAT'S why it can't say , 'This NOTE is LAWFUL MONEY' , because it ISN'T...It says This NOTE is 'Legal Tender'...That's Banker/Lawyer language for ,
" You've been Screwed , Dude !".
To claim it as Lawful Money would be FRAUD , and some folk would be consequently locked into their own Vaults...
If it's not 'Lawful' Money , what is it?...UNLAWFUL...Some folk seem able to 'Do The Math' on this point , but , a LOT of others , not so much...
A 'DOLLAR' is a Legally-defined Unit of Measurement...Go back and read the Coinage Act , it's the Law...If in further doubt , go check the Constitution...
Quote:
I'm not denying gold's historic value. But there may come a time when something else becomes more valuable than gold, simply due to changing circumstances. Food, for instance.
Yes , you are denying its historic value , and the Constitutional requirements that Visionary men demanded , at the Founding of the United States...To keep Us from being subjected to the whims and vagaries of 'central' banks , and the Tyrants who controlled them , they insisted that a 'dollar' be something with an 'inflation-proof' intrinsic value , not a worthless piece of scrip...THEY didn't deny the historic value of gold and silver , or copper...Throughout history , they've been commodities with true staying power , known and proven , and esteemed by virtually every culture...
Quote:
Don't assume that because things have been a certain way they will continue in the same vein indefinitely.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
I'M not making the assumptions here...I KNOW that things will NOT continue the same...And , it WILL NOT be Pretty...It's not a matter of IF it will crash , but WHEN...I Agree , Food will likely become a commodity more esteemed than gold , and ce
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O2B- In a desert where EVERYONE is thirsty, water may become the currency of choice. Have you ever read Dune? And nice hard corundum blades, suitable for digging wells, might be more valuable per ounce than gold. Even paper money might have a higher value... as kindling, if nothing else. Sure, gold is pretty and shiny. It doesn't corrode. But it's heavy and it's too soft to turn into a tool.
Yes, gold has had a historic value. But the only "intrinsic" value that you can point to is the fact that rich people seem to value it. So you're basing your valuation on the belief and opinion of others. And values based on "opinion" or "belief" is still speculation. Put it this way: If gold were so intrinsically valuable, why would it's price (in USD) fluctuate from $850 in 1980 to $253 in 1999?
BTW- I have nothing against gold. I bought a sizeable amount over a year ago because I could see the dollar was going to tank. I also bought into selected foreign currency hedge funds. But if I think that something else will increase in value faster than gold... or foreign currencies... I'll dump the gold and buy into that. Even if it's tulip bulbs. (You should read about the tulip bulb mania of the 1600's.) It's all fluid.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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So , do we agree that we're in an economic wasteland ?
Just so you know , the tulip bulbs have long been old news to me...
" There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil , for every one striking at the root..."
Folk just need to know that there can never be a stable economy , or a Sovereign nation , built upon a house of cards made of Federal Reserve Notes...
Our economy is being debased according to an old design...Those who choose to ignore the facts of history will reap in the same way that they've sown...
You've conceded that gold DOES have an intrinsic value , and pointed out some of its particular uses...
But , you keep forgetting what you've already noted , and you are doomed to keep repeating what has gone before...
Gold has unique physical and chemical properties , just like germanium , tungsten , tantalum , platinum , etc .
Each of them have unique applications that give them their intrinsic value , and some are esteemed particularly because of their relative rarity...
In turns , you've both acknowledged , then subsequently DENIED , these facts...
Neither cotton rag nor Federal Reserve Notes are Lawful Money , and digital 'bits' aren't , either...
The forecast calls for pain...
Either you're a part of the problem , or a part of its solution...
If you don't believe in the intrinsic value of gold , what are you doing with it ?
Do you even have custody of it ? If you don't , you have no right to act surprised when it disappears like your digital bits...
If you still want to flagellate your appendages , and your expired equine ,
about how your gold has no 'intrinsic' value , I'll send a truck , or an envelope , to take it off your hands , whichever is more appropriate...
'Cause , you are my kind of stupid...
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Quote:Speculating.
If you don't believe in the intrinsic value of gold , what are you doing with it ?
Quote:Yep.
Do you even have custody of it ?
Quote:If that ain't the dumbest argument I've ever heard. Just because it's current value far exceeds its "intrinsic" value doesn't mean that it's valueless at the moment. Tell you what... if fiat money is so valueless, how about you give me all of yours? And, do you suppose you can discuss w/o being insulting?
If you still want to flagellate your appendages , and your expired equine , about how your gold has no 'intrinsic' value , I'll send a truck , or an envelope , to take it off your hands , whichever is more appropriate...
I'll get to the "root" of the problem later.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:6ix, I'm trying to tell you that a system based on greed will act... yanno, GREEDY. It's not fear-mongering that's causing banks to fail, it's predatory lending caused by unbridled greed. But somehow you manage to get it bass-ackwards.
You know Signy... it's the bullshit fear monguering like that, that drove people to pull all of their money out of IndyMac bank and made it fail.
I just got a copy of a local paper from my hometown. The headline said "American Axle Spares Cheektowaga.. But Tonawanda Plant to Close" A union member who voted for the contract put it this way: It was either vote no and lose my job... or vote yes, get a buyout, and lose my job
You think you can make that go away with happy-think?
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Let's party like it's 1929.
Signy, stop being so greedy with your money! You just don't get it, do you? You're supposed to be giving it all to the banks, so they don't fail. It's not your place to wonder what they're doing with it, and it's not your place to try to say how it's spent. It's greedy to want to have any say over your own money! The banks know best, and they know what they're doing. If they didn't know exactly what they were doing, and how to do it better than us mere mortals, they'd fail.
Oh. Shit. Never mind.
But I still think it's greedy of you to want to have any access to your own money, when the banks clearly need it so much more than you do. After all, YOU aren't billions and trillions in debt, are you? Well, they and the government ARE, so that proves that you're greedy and they're not - if they were, they couldn't have just given away so much money!
Takin' Care of Business, Baby!
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I bought gold for long-term potential value as an industrial metal whose cheap sources are probably tapped-out.
But you know - people are looking for other metals to use as catalysts and in circuits, and gold could be replaced. And if gold is valuable enough, a new extraction process might make it cheaper to produce, or new sources may be found. Or the global economy might tank and the industrial demand for gold might drop for purely economic reasons. Demand for jewelry (80% of gold demand in 2003) could drop. Other things I haven't even thought about might happen. In other words, gold may NOT be the short-supply high-use-demand resource I think it will be.
In the meantime, now that speculation has temporarily topped-out the value of gold (another source of 'value'), it certainly would be worth my while to cash out my gold and try to find something else that will appreciate faster. And get back to gold later.
No, gold has no value beyond what we temporarily give it. In that way it's exactly like the other shiny bits of metal we trade with, as well as colored pieces of paper. Or shells, or ivory or any other item we assign value to.
I too have taken physical possession btw. Personally, I think it looks pretty.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
O2B- In a desert where EVERYONE is thirsty, water may become the currency of choice. Have you ever read Dune?
Sure , I've read Dune...
Despite the fact that you're plainly 'high on spice' , that stuff still hasn't given you any insight or prescience...Or , appreciation for history...
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Sure, gold is pretty and shiny. It doesn't corrode. But it's heavy and it's too soft to turn into a tool.
It's only your arguments that are too soft to turn into a tool...You , on the other hand , are a 'tool' , because you're a soft 'target' for the twin engines of our national destruction , the IRS and the Federal Reserve...
Consider yourself poked and forked , because you are 'done'...
Plainly , you don't know what constitutes a 'tool'...There are innumerable applications for gold in nanotechnology and nanomedicine , aerospace , electronics , etc.
That's intrinsic value , based on chemistry and physics , which are holding up pretty well , along with certain other immutable Laws of the Universe...
Demand impacts the available supply , and consequently , the 'price'...Never said that it wasn't a commodity , but it is the Lawfully-specified commodity upon which our economy is required to be based , along with Silver and Copper...All 'strategic' metals , because of their unique, intrinsic , properties...
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Put it this way: If gold were so intrinsically valuable, why would it's price (in USD) fluctuate from $850 in 1980 to $253 in 1999?
Market forces...Supply and Demand...Perception of an 'expanding' economy and relatively more responsible policies on the part of 'government' during that timeframe...Duh !
But , still no Lawful Money during that period...
Prior to that , John Kennedy wanted to return this country to its Lawful , Constitutional roots , a metals-based economic system...Soon thereafter , he was assasinated , and LBJ got busy reversing the orders...
A Sovereign nation truly cannot be run at the whim of private banksters...As long as there are Constitutional standards (Metals) being met...
Do you want to be a Citizen , or a 'subject' ?...
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"Do you want to be a Citizen , or a 'subject' ?..."
And uhhhh, are we supposed to rally around this, at this point ? Have you given up on facts ? Is this your final argument ?
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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