Screw 'em if they hate us
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 09:13
VIEWED: 19860
PAGE 21 of 30
What SergeantX and FremD can't quite seem to wrap their minds around are these two little pieces of reality:
Corporations have more power than government by virtue of their wealth. Not b/c of any supposed laws but by sheer power of the purse.
And businesses inevitably consolidate into monopolies. Not b/c of any laws but by the nature of accumulation of capital.
Until they can come to grips with these simple concepts they will forever be deluded into thinking that the only thing wrong with the world is government, and the only thing that can enslave people are laws.
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:None of those regions conform to ALL the conditions you outlined in your previous post. Each of them may conform to SOME, but not to all. If fulfilling one of those conditions is sufficient, you should've said so before.
Originally posted by SignyM:
That's exactly the way it's done. In China, most medium to large-sized businesses are owned by the government. In Taiwan it's about 50%. Wages are set by the government, as are the number of employees, employment policies etc. The EU has nationalized banks, transportation, energy, health insurance etc. In other industries (auto mfr) in Germany for example government and the unions sit at the table as equals with the owners to determine things like output, prices, wages etc. Businesses have to take responsibility for dipsosing of the packaging that they ship/ distribute the product with (which menas they use a LOT less packaging than we do!) In the EU, industries pay VAT (Value Added Tax).
Quote:There was a huge scandal in Germany a couple of months ago about how many millions of Euros retiring CEOs get payed...
Originally posted by SignyM:
In ALL areas, the differential between the upper echelon and the rank and file is far less than the USA.
Quote:Because of this:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So, I'm confused: Why are YOU confused?
Quote:Oops.
Originally posted by SignyM:
When I talk with my daughter, I'm VERY careful NOT to say "Toyota makes..." or "GE makes..." As far as I'm concerned that's like telling her that the Easter bunny exists. And it's part of your essential confusion. Corporations are not necessary. For anything.
So now Toyota is allowed to exist in your world view, as are corporations. Just American corporations aren't, so GE is still like the Easter bunny. If you changed your mind, that's okay, we all do it on occasions, but maybe you should stop lecturing people on how the world should be before you've figured it out for yourself.
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Quote:And they STILL get paid far less than ours. It just means the Germans have a stronger sense of fairness.
There was a huge scandal in Germany a couple of months ago about how many millions of Euros retiring CEOs get payed
Quote:There is a difference between being allowed to exist and being necessary.
Oops. So now Toyota is allowed to exist in your world view, as are corporations. Just American corporations aren't, so GE is still like the Easter bunny.
"Organization" is necessary to build complex technologies. But not all organizations are corporations. Or is that you conflating corporations with... well, everything? What's so difficult to understand?
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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And I suspect Khyron has the 'single drop of blood' concept when it comes to corporations (like some people do when to comes to being black).
Anything in any organization that remotely resembles a corporation - hey, they have managers - makes it a corporation just like ours ! Which means their economies are just like ours !
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
I suggest if this sounds intriguing to you to contact your State's Attorney and get the real scoop...
What if this sounds disgusting to me?
(No offense to you though, rallem. I appreciate the spirit of helpful suggestions.)
The fact that our legal structure promotes such idiocy is flat out insane. This kind of bureaucratic gaming is my biggest beef with the tax code. Politicians can't resist the urge to use taxes as a tool for social engineering, rather that just a way to collect revenue. The result is that we end up with arcane rules and regulations that exist as little more than friction on society.
I'm all about beating the system, at least when the system is as nonsensical and arbitrary as ours is - so I have no beef with the people taking advantage of such loopholes. It's the asswipes on capitol hill who produce such convoluted crap ... arrghh!!!
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
Do you actually live in America, and simply want to change the system even though you know it is impossible, or do you live outside of America and are just talking crap about us?
http://swyzzlestyx.com/index.html
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Quote:A lot, it seems. I'm really confused because first, it seemed, you were arguing against all corporations, but now corporations in China, Taiwan, Japan and the EU are acceptable because they're "not as bad" as American ones. I ask again: are you arguing against the concept of corporations, or are you arguing for more regulation of corporations? And please, for a change, could you give me a straight answer? None of this "I know perfectly well what I mean, so what's so difficult to understand!?" stuff.
Originally posted by SignyM:
What's so difficult to understand?
Anyway, suppose we've answered the question of where FMRIs come from ("We import them, silly!"), I have another question. Let's assume we have a corporation that manufactures cars, and let's assume we're a couple of years in the future when everything's automated. There are a couple of people around to make sure the robotic arms etc don't mess up, but on the whole, the process is almost wholly independent of human input. Who makes the cars then? People, because they supervise? Robots? The corporation?
Rue, clearly you missed my point, so just stay out of this.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
China, Japan, Taiwan, the EU. (None of them are fully capitalist)
But it's the capitalist, corporate parts of them that make FMRIs. You can't show me an FMRI made by a non-capitalist and non-corporate business, because no such businesses are out there to make one, or to make most anything that requires complex processes and infrastructure. Any of the communist countries who once made similar stuff did so only by becoming monopolies.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:
Originally posted by rallem:
Do you actually live in America, and simply want to change the system even though you know it is impossible, or do you live outside of America and are just talking crap about us?
It doesn't matter. And I ain't talking crap about you, unless you're a politician passing stupid laws.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
What SergeantX and FremD can't quite seem to wrap their minds around are these two little pieces of reality:
Corporations have more power than government by virtue of their wealth. Not b/c of any supposed laws but by sheer power of the purse.
And businesses inevitably consolidate into monopolies. Not b/c of any laws but by the nature of accumulation of capital.
...
Well, one person's "reality" is another person's bad joke.
Regardless, my hope is that there can be some intersection of values on this issue, that libertarians and liberals can at least agree that corporations shouldn't get special privileges at our expense.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
If you want to see a free society with a socialistic economy look at Sweden.
You sure have a strange idea of Socialism. Most Swedish industry is in private control and the government is selling off what they still have as fast as they can. Maybe you confuse socialsim with social welfare. Google 'swedish socialism' and see what you find.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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