Screw 'em if they hate us
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Tuesday, July 1, 2008 09:13
VIEWED: 19860
PAGE 24 of 30
Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
How's that research coming along to find just ONE good thing to say about the ol' US of A ?
QED
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Quote:Whoa Geezer... are you SURE you want to go down this road???
You just insult, demean, obfuscate, lie, redefine words and concepts to fit your agenda, and - when all else fails - bullshit.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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FREM: economies of scale
I'm not sure you know what I mean by "economies of scale". Basically what it means is that it's far cheaper per unit to produce 1000 widgets instead of 10, and cheaper still to produce a million widgets. I can point to a lot of reasons why that's so: There's less administrative costs, the more you produce the more likely you'll automate, when you DO automate there are fewer re-tooling costs, transporting in bulk is more efficient and therefore cheaper than transporting in small lots.
So, even assuming that a large business takes no "unfair" advantage over a small one, a large producer will always have lower per-unit costs than a small producer. That means large producers will always be able to offer lower prices, and according to market forces they will simply continue to get larger and larger. And that's assuming no specific anti-competitive practices, like forming cartels with other large producers.
The point is that market forces cause monopolism, even w/o government intervention.
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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Quote:I'm trying to understand what SignyM's standpoint is. Wouldn't that be the opposite of trying to shut down somebody else's opinion?
Originally posted by rue:
Khyron - why is it when you post you try to shut down other opinions ?
Quote:There are so many things to discuss, but around 40% of all discussions in RWED revolve around the same bloody thing, over and over and over and over and over. Is it trying to shut down other people's opinions by wanting to move on?
Originally posted by rue:
Like here ...
We've been challenging AURaptor for years and all it did was waste everyone's time.
Quote:It's obvious that you were trying to bully me from the sidelines, and didn't even bother to read my posts properly to find out what my point was. Clearly, you were not about to play a constructive part in the discussion (do you ever?), so asking you to stay out of it was totally reasonable.
Originally posted by rue:
... and here ...
Rue, clearly you missed my point, so just stay out of this.
You're not completely wrong though, when it comes to me wanting to shut down other people's opinion, at least when it applies to you. I don't want your opinion. I don't value your opinion. The way you behave and the way you treat others on this board who disagree with you, well, you're just not somebody I have enough respect for to want to know where they stand on the issues (even though we seem to agree on the majority of them).
But I see I've once again fallen for the old Rue-SignyM tag-teaming trick. Everybody who challenges SignyM has to deal with your bullshit instead, while SignyM moves on to other discussions.
SignyM, I'd appreciate it if you could answer my questions. You were lecturing us, so I'd be grateful if you could give proper responses when there's a question from the audience on something that isn't clear.
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This isn't my signature. I have to type this every time I make a post.
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Quote:
I was under the impression that the anti-trust acts simply had to do with preventing monopolistic (anti-competitive behavior) with no reflection on the government at all.
Actually, while not explicitly mentioned, in the context of the times and various historical statements by those behind such anti-trust acts, a corporation or trust becoming big enough to "buy off' the Gov was considered a significant threat, and while much of that legislation is toothless or unenforced, I do believe that was one of the stumbling blocks that helped Smedley Butler hamstring the Business Plot.
Ironically, and anything but coincidentally, if you run the names of the families involved in union busting and such, to the business plot, to modern day exploitive Corporatism, they're all the same ones, ain't they ?
Rockefeller, Carnegie, Morgan, Chase, Dupont, Hearst, Hughes etc...
Not to add a shade of PN flavoring, but these folk are no longer even remotely "like us" especially after a hundred years of dynastic corporate supremacy, and in my personal (as in not operational) opinion is that the only proper solution to THEM was invented by the french.... Schwick-Thump!
So the fear of that threat, being financially overpowered by the robber barons WAS there, but damned if anyone was going to say it out loud till a certain politician went a trust-busting, but never quite went after the right folk, or went far enough with it.
Quote:
If you meant to say the law is a tool for destroying small businesses or propping up big ones, that is not the case. Using Microsoft as an example, most of what MS did was clearly illegal even under our relatively weak laws. But the laws' biggest flaw is simply that it wasn't enforced. (Kollar-Kotelly)
In effect, making the case EXACTLY as I stated it - the big daddies can rely on it never being enforced against THEM by the folk who's campaign coffers they can afford to fill, but their smaller competitors have no such protection.
So in THEORY, it is not, but in FACT, it is - see ?
Quote:
the biggest problem is the frigging media.
That's what Youtube and half a million kids with cameras are for - but everyone is so goddamn terrified to make a stand unless there's already a huge crowd already making it and their cowardly fairweather pissant bitch ass can hide in it...
I've always been against the idea of pulling a captain midnight or electronically commendeering a radio tower/satellite/etc, but times change, and I've just travelled cross country for a pretty good bit under some rough circumstance and got a nice good look at just how totally fucked we are on infrastructure and economy, not to mention production or even maintainence of that infrastructure... it's BAD, kiddo, very much so.
Ergo, I will not gainsay or vote against that option should it be officially proposed, and that's sayin a hell of a lot.
Quote:
THOUSANDS of people have been tear-gassed, clubbed, and arrested over nothing.
This is what concerns me greatly, cause eventually folks are gonna start shootin back, and there are a LOT of angry folk in this country, many of them with conflicting, confused, or nonexistent political agendas, and once the shooting starts, it's HELL to stop it - I reccommend David Drakes novels for a good capsule concept of the political and social ramifications once caps start popping, cause that's just toooo long to get into here.
And now you might wanna duck, Siggy....
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
BTW, it has NOTHING to do with the government.
Bullshit, it has everything to do with it.
Or need I remind you that Hawaii was annexed BY the Gov for their corp buddies, or how about Smedley Butler flat out admitting that certain of our military actions were entirely for the benefit of corporations, not the least of which was united fruit, but goddamn it's a long list innit ?
(See Also: War is a Racket)
The "military-industrial-complex" has nothing to do with the government ?
Well then perhaps you can tell me where they're getting those juicy no-bid contracts from, eh ?
Or best of how, HOW, exactly, did our oil companies get those oh-so-lucrative deals on foreign oil... sheer gratitude and milk of kindess then, yeah ?
Sure, the Shah just naturally came to power and handed it to us cause he's such a good guy, uh-huh - pull the other one, it's got bells on.
Our fucking military is both the enforcers and protectors of the corporate mafia (for lack of a better word) that has our government so financially dependant on them that they COULDN'T serve the people as they should even if they wanted to - and this has been the case since the beginning of this shit back in the late 1800's, only since americans are as a general rule cowardly little shits, any pathetic and laughable amount of fearmongering sends them scurrying under the bed begging for big daddy gov to protect them at all cost, and until the populace as a whole grow a fucking set, they damn well DESERVE the situation, you ask me.
Quote:
but nowhere have I seen you actually propose a solution that I remember. And certainly none that involves the cooperative power of society to deal with things too big for individuals.
Gee, not siccing the fucking entire army on the unions when they DO stand up for themselves doesn't qualify ?
Actually HAVING unions that aren't at best a lame ass and disempowered drinking club doesn't qualify ?
AND.. golly fucking gee, what IS a union BUT the cooperative power of a certain section of society against something too big to individually handle ?
Maybe if you weren't too busy shovelling bullshit to listen you might have actually fucking heard me say these things, but no, as usual, once again, I get told I never said what I did....
And folks wonder why I have so little sympathy for the rest of the pissants who live on this particular section of dirt - to be fucking blunt about it, I LAUGH when they come up on the very tragedy and misfortune their own fanatical and treasured ignorance and cowardice has brought unto them, it's naught more than karmas swift justice.
Were it not for the future generations we keep creating and then feeding into the maw of this hellspawned society that is dead set against everything HUMAN in us, I'd just as soon condemn the whole fucking species to the lifeless radioactive wasteland that is all which they deserve, but those kids ain't responsible for OUR fuckups, and be damned if I plan to leave them nothing but a grim future of the sum of OUR failures, like they're some kind of janitorial cleanup squad... fuck that.
You ever wanna real answer to something ? it's dead bang simple.
If you don't KNOW the answer, then you must BE the answer, or at least try to be.
And that's a damn sight better than anyone else seems to be doin these days.
-Frem
PS. Do you REALLY think imma discuss the details of any particular plan in public when I feel the public is a bunch of cowardly shits without even the moral fortitude to have the decency to remain fucking silent when they can get a pat on the head from the very folk fucking them over the worst ?
Get real.
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RE: Economies of Scale.
There's that, but it doesn't account for the basic humanity of people, and quality control does fall off at certain levels of production.
If *I* build a widget for ya, it'll last forever, you've seen the dollhouse, yes ?
So there's that factor to regard as well.
-F
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Quote:Quality control falls off at certain levels of profitability, actually.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
There's that, but it doesn't account for the basic humanity of people, and quality control does fall off at certain levels of production.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Whoa Geezer... are you SURE you want to go down this road???
I'd prefer it if none of us had to. I'd prefer that we not get caught up in the game of tit for tat insult that Rue's so good at initiating. I'd prefer straight answers to questions rather than deceit, dissembling, or insult. Heck, I'd prefer for you or Rue to specify a non-corporate source for an FMRI.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Ah, Khyron, I missed your question:
Quote:If I had my 'druthers, I'd do away with corporations altogether and replace them with a different business form: the cooperative. There is still "management", and it's still possible to have large entities, but the strategic control of those entities (including the distribution of earnings) belongs to the people who work there. I don't know if I want to flesh this out in detail right now. Geezer, Fletch2 and I had a long discussion about this. BTW- There are several highly successful cooperatives that range from primary production (the State of Kerala in India only allows cooperatives, and not surprisingly has the highest living standard in India, Mondragon in Spain, and Zeiss Optical) but if I can I'll try to find the original thread and link it.
A lot, it seems. I'm really confused because first, it seemed, you were arguing against all corporations, but now corporations in China, Taiwan, Japan and the EU are acceptable because they're "not as bad" as American ones. I ask again: are you arguing against the concept of corporations, or are you arguing for more regulation of corporations?
But failing that, I'd go for changing corporate law. At the least, I would take away the corps the special privileges over real people. At the most, I would eliminate the stock market.
Quote:People, because they supervise the machines, and they made the machines which made the machines.
[b[]Anyway, suppose we've answered the question of where FMRIs come from ("We import them, silly!"), I have another question. Let's assume we have a corporation that manufactures cars, and let's assume we're a couple of years in the future when everything's automated. There are a couple of people around to make sure the robotic arms etc don't mess up, but on the whole, the process is almost wholly independent of human input. Who makes the cars then? People, because they supervise? Robots? The corporation?
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Let's party like it's 1929.
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