Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 23 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Just too many damn fools willing to join the lynch mob, and too few who understand that allowing the rights of others to be violated invites the violation of your own.
They'll get it when 10 years after Obama's healthcare mandates for children have the Feds coming and taking ownership of their kids for failure to provide adequate healthcare for their children (which, of course, they won't be able to afford on account of the $10/gal gas, $5 ears of corn, and lets not forget the free pass for the health insurance providers to charge whatever the hell they want since their product is mandated). It's really sad how most folk don't really grasp the concepts of the important stuff until it's far too late.
That's the sound of history repeating itself....
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Not much I can share for updates, but here it is.
Still trying to pry loose some of those "minors" who are no such thing, one of which is without a doubt 24 years old, with birth certificate, drivers license, driving record, insurance payments, and credit history to fuckin prove it, and they still won't cut the chain.
Can you IMAGINE being that girl ?
Raided, scared witless, pulled out of a lineup, told you're underage, forced to undergo a no-consent full medical exam, then shoved under the control of "adults" in a foster care setting and treated as horribly as we on average treat kids ?
How would YOU take it ?
There's been at least one fairly violent incident related to that, and man... I can't say I blame her, my own response to that would be lethal if I could manage it - because of the way we consider children subhuman, it's like totally stripping your entire personhood away.
What a friggin nightmare.
There's also, and I KNEW this one was coming, the issue of forced vaccination rearing it's head, so I guess were gonna lose a few to Autism and medical complications, oh joy wonder, the benefits of the oh-so-benevolent state.
Some of the CPS folk, between the legendary rock and hard place, are starting to crack - they are stuck with some seriously conflicting responsibilities and it's taking a heavy toll, not to mention frustration caused by the inability to return children to their parents when that is what the specific case has determined is the best course of action.
The only bright note of that is that the Childtrauma Academy and Bruce Perry's folk are offering secondary trauma counselling to these workers, because we need them even though they are being emotionally ground up.
I don't envy them, being told by the State to do what is right by the child, while simultaneously ordered to take actions they believe are harmful to the mental and emotional health of the child in question and unable to reconcile those two imperatives due to being employed by the State.
That seriously has to suck.
And with the whole forced vaccination thing, it just became a little harder to keep the lid on, since in spite of their reclusiveness many of these folk are NOT stupid, and have scientific/medical objections as well as religious/philosophical ones.
Didn't help matters on other groups who feel they're next up on the chopping block neither, some of whom I had never thought had a violent thought in their whole person have... changed their minds, thanks to this.
-F
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Well....
That whole part of the story reminds me a lot of what River must have gone through... "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Amazing - I guess there's much to be said for stockpiling arms in the face of a threat, and I am wondering just how much of a factor that was on recent events.
Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff just pulled a major rabbit out of his hat in helping keep the lid on, apparently he rounded up some officials from Utah and Arizona, then held a meeting with Utah elements of FLDS to try and help stabilize the situation.
"We assure you that we do not plan a raid to end polygamy," Shurtleff said. "I know you're worried about that. We're not going to do it. I don't care how many talking heads on cable television shows tell Terry and I we need to cowboy up and be like Texas. We don't believe that's the answer."
Terry Goddard, the AZ Attorney General, also put his two cents in usefully.
"There are suspicions that some actions are taken because of the defendant's belief and not because of their acts. And I want to assure you, that's not the rule in our office, and as long as I'm attorney general it never will be," Goddard said.
Hearing THAT from an official sources has done wonders in putting a much needed chill on events, thankfully before any stupidity ensued, because some other groups in the meeting made some fairly overt threats - one County Supervisor is gonna be getting a reaming from his boss later today over a few statements more or less threatening Arizona FLDS members with the same type of actions that happened in Texas.
So hearing the AG pull the rug out from under the folks thinking of committing similar "cowboy" actions has helped a lot to cool the situation, thankfully.
Some of the more threatening/hostile officials walked out on the meeting early, visibly angry and that's not really going to encourage anyone to sell off their stockpiles just yet, but without the Attorney Generals support, it's unlikely they'll be able to accomplish much but the petty harrassment that's driven FLDS to isolate itself in the first place.
Shurtleff also threw out a useful compromise on the custody issue.
"Can I just ask, and we're not taking notes, but how many of you have relatives in Texas that are in custody? How many of you would be willing to take them into your home? We think it would be wonderful if that were to happen and we'll continue to try and encourage that," Shurtleff said.
That is a BRILLIANT solution to a really thorny issue, solving in one stroke many of the problems facing both sides at this time.
He's also made it known he's willing to work WITH them and help remove bad actors from their community individually without holding the whole community at fault - and while I don't think the FLDS members fully trust any of these offers yet, keeping his word will do wonders for sorting the situation out in a fashion everyone can agree on.
While not really fond of the State and it's agents, this is a job well done on behalf of Shurtleff and Goddard, and they deserve recognition for that.
I doubt Texas will be as cooperative, but I guess we'll find out, cause placing some of those children with family members in Utah instead of Foster Care will solve a LOT of problems in one clean stroke.
That'll help a lot.
-F
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I fell sorry for the labs doing the DNA tests. They are going to be rushed for results, asked to skip important steps, pushed to release preliminary results - which will magically become permanent - and hung out to dry if there are any mistakes or unconfirmed equivocal results. And since the FLDS group has been SOOOooo insular - and inbred (eeewww) - for so long, they'll be a lot of partial matches everywhere. So it'll take really good lab results and a fair bit of time to unscramble the who's who of that FLDS compound.
And until then - when the court knows who's the mom, who's the dad - nothing can happen.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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That is also a concern of mine - the LAST thing anyone needs here is sloppy work confusing the issue, so if you have any connections in that kind of thing, pass the word on to do the job right even if it takes a bit longer.
I hadn't thought of the genetic similarity causing such a problem, but that's just ever more solid reason to do the job as cleanly as possible.
I can prolly help keep most of the FLDS crowd from jumping the gun, but there's naught I can do about the State pressuring them, alas.
Things are screwed up enough without halfassing the testing, but I have no contacts within that industry myself - perhaps that guy from the innocence project might be of use explaining to folks one both sides the importance of getting it right the first time, I'll shoot an Email and see if he's willing to comment.
Also, thankfully nobody but one newspaper in Dallas has noticed the radical spike in firearms purchases and they've not connected the two matters, but it's causing a really massive backlog of the CCW permit system, requiring some overtime and temp hires to smooth out the flow.
At least they're doing it legally, and I am puttin serious thought into pressuring some of them to get a bulk package on some safety classes, before some nitwit shoots themself in the foot or something.
-F
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Frem
"... perhaps that guy from the innocence project might be of use explaining to folks one both sides the importance of getting it right the first time, I'll shoot an Email and see if he's willing to comment."
If you could do that it would be great. I mean it. Unfortunately the individual hearings have been scheduled for a very tight time-frame - to be completed within the next (slightly less than) 4 weeks at this point. So it means that whatever lab is doing the testing has gotta' come up with good results not by shaving the procedures but by putting in all the time to do all the steps - except doing it on evenings, weekends, even nights if possible, as well as regular days. So SOMEBODY has to pony up the $$$$ to make sure it gets done right. That's always the issue.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Actually since USDOJ has had a hand in the case, the $$$ for testing costs (overtime, extra personnel) may be available out of their budget for such things under certain of their own guidelines provided the proper paperwork is filed.
The FBI's budget for this is sucking wind, as usual, but DOJ should be able to cover as they had an active hand in the investigation.
We'll get on that by 2pm today, this kind of assistive coordination is actually our forte, reducing redundancy, cross purposes and miscommunication by a substantial factor.
Should be just a matter of confirming authorization, and getting the correct documents faxed over, filled out and returned to the right people as soon as possible.
I appreciate this being brought to my attention, cause it's a solveable problem I wasn't aware of till this point.
We might be able to shave down some of those hearings is we can place some of the children with family from Utah or Arizona, if substantive documentation of their identity can be dug up and the State will acknowledge it - this is an ongoing problem since they've gone so far as to deny the validity of drivers licenses they themselves had issued, complete with photo, driving record and insurance history, I don't see where and why they wouldn't accept that other than just petty stonewalling.
I'd think a State issued drivers license or ID that's verified by SOUNDEX or whatever they use now with a picture that is a clear match for the individual in question would be good enough till proven otherwise until these results come in, but try telling THEM this...
-F
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Oh, shit.
Texas eyes another isolated rural cult
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-polygamy14may14,0,5
685847.story
This is NOT good.
Now, ok, yes, if individuals have broken the law, sure - prosecute them.
But given recent events, and the moral cowardice of folks jumping on the lynch mob train in part due to a mainstream media which has, quite frankly, shovelled bullshit by the ton - this has given a green light to further abusive measures against other whole beliefs, as I predicted.
I am hoping against hope that this does not go where I see it going, cause I been sayin all along that the actions of Texas officials had panicked many other reclusive religious factions who felt they might be next up on the chopping block if folks let the FLDS matter slide, which they have.
And now that this perception has been entirely validated, there's absolutely no reasoning with them, none what-so-ever, and many of them are indeed willing to go scorched earth.
Do I really have to detail how badly this can go from here ?
I have another update post behind this one, but being blindsided by this, and having a good deal of support pull right out from under me cause they're fully concerned with saving their own ass now - is really pissin me off.
The lid's come off with a bang, folks, and unless someone puts a stop to this, things WILL go rodeo when it comes to cases.
-F
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Ok, update - those of you keeping track might be aware that the mental health personnel assigned to FLDS have prettymuch gone ballistic over CPS's repeated and continuous abuse, procedural violations, disrespect for the law, etc.
There's more to it than that - CFBR (Boy's Ranch) has been taking care of the boys on a charitable emergency basis because CPD refuses to compensate them in retaliation for not playing along with the witch hunt, they've been able to provide a secure and theraputic environment mainly due to their ability to force CPS to comply with their own standards when on the property, something CPS is not at all pleased about as they have been looking into moving the boys somewhere else less stringent.
Now, the Hill Country Community Mental Health-Mental Retardation Center personnel, the original mental health personnel assigned to the FLDS matter, are tack-spitting pissed over CPS mistreatment of their charges to a degree of outright abuse.
They watched CPS personnel lie to the mothers, the kids, caught CPS lying to THEM, witnessed abuses and disrespect, a hostile attitude and often downright sheer meanness - they were absolutely horrified and when they finally spoke out...
They were fired, pulled off for showing actual compassion towards folks who in their opinion (and remember these are mental health professionals) were being viciously abused mentally and emotionally by agents of the State.
They've taken it to the regional board and demanded an investigation, stating that they felt CPS was "Out of control".
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700225591,00.html
Like I said, out of the frying pan, into the fire - and now that comes comfirmed with the testimony of eleven mental health professionals, that these children and their parents were done far more harm by the actions of the State than anything faced at YFZ.
As an aside, we've FINALLY started to pry loose some of the adults that CPS has been protesting all along were underage, although in one case even AFTER that acknowledgement, they've held the girl in custody under threat of having her kids torn from her and sent off heaven knows where.
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700225827,00.html
One other, just released, with no children of her own, has asked us to begin the paperwork for her to emigrate to Canada, as she "doesn't feel safe" here in the US anymore.
A lot of angry, upset people right now, and what with Texas salivating over potential next targets, a right tenous and dangerous situation exists.
Case or no case, DNA or not - the State has completely abused these people.
And ponder all that has gone before, how other reclusive religious groups may feel watching this, and then hearing TX gleefully announce their next potential target ?
Do you REALLY think many of them are planning to cooperate or negotiate at this point ?
I've called this one dead-bang straight from beginning to end, and now, if you do NOT want a bloodbath, get your ass on the phone to anyone who could *POSSIBLY* level some influance here and push them to use it, before these damn cowboy assholes get a lot of folk killed, and you'd best be quick about it.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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