Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 3 of 28
My thoughts on it. What a sect decides to do in their bedroom is a personal thing. I don't hold much with polygamy because no matter how you look on it someone is being shorted in that relationship. However, all parties need to be consenting adults. Girls as young as 15 having babies? That's wrong as far as I'm concerned, people should have a chance to grow up and live some before they need worry about marriage and offspring.
I'm sure if the Mormons cleaned house and abided by the same age rules the rest of us accept nobody would care how many wives a man had, just so long as they were 18 or over.
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I want to believe that officials were acting in the best interest of innocent victims, but sometimes that kind of naivete can get your home burned to the ground or get you killed....
Without a doubt some are, and also without a doubt some are fulfilling personal agendas, and even the former, Gov't employment is no immunity to the bad habit of jumping in with both boots without fully researching the situation, rather the opposite, cause the consequences are so far removed from the individual who did so.
Right now it's a total fubar mess, you got the usual petty jurisdictional stuff, a couple ladder climbers lookin for a turned back to stick the knife in, pissed off folk lookin for someone to blame, folks who mean well but are disgusted by the whole mess, and folk trying to sort it out maybe enough to process an actual case out of it that's not a show trial, folks who WANT a show trial trying the shade the evidence...
And that's on the Gov side - compounded by social workers dealing with kids who've been somewhat traumatized by the tactics used to "rescue" them, who are afraid, confused and maybe a little angry, who are as usual badly undertrained for dealing with such things, and no way are they gonna be sympathetic towards the folk who scared and confused them in the first place, thus putting the social workers in the crossfire between trying to comfort and treat these kids on the one hand, and trying to extract testimony on the other, an untenable situation if there ever was one.
And then you got the parents, the folk running the place, and potential perps, who are without one ounce of doubt gonna go straight to their lawyers, the ACLU, and the media, in that order, once released from custody, which is gonna further muddy the waters on top of everything else.
Chances of processing an actual, fair trial of a justified case out of THIS mess, at THIS point ?
Jack Diddly Shit.
Once you've blown an investigation this badly, there's no point in continuing, cause it's just a dog and pony show from there.
By no means am I defending FLDS, cause they got much to answer for, given that I am aware of two cases at least that *could* have been pressed, but not after everyone peed in the pool on us like this - that's what I am angry about, is how they totally bungled it, you see.
I think what sparked the overkill factor was a combination of external pressure from some victims, families and lawyers, layered on top of the FBI and local officials refusing to act whatsoever, when they had more than sufficient evidence to do so, there's a big frustration factor in there from the USDOJ folk pissed off at having to come in over top like that cause no one wanted to dirty their hands doing the job.
This COULD have been handled with a hell of a lot more discretion, but no one wanted to touch the hot potato.
And I highly doubt, having invested so much effort and media attention, the authories are gonna admit fault, apologize and make reperations.
(While, if they have any sense, keeping a close watch for further misbehavior)
Nope, can't have that, so we're gonna have a dog and pony show, and a bullshit trial, which might stick, but even if it does will almost certainly go to appeal and likely be tossed due to evidence contamination...
What a freakin waste of a good case and needed resources, grrr.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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I feel very bad for all those kids. I only hope the authorities truly do a good job in finding out who the bad guys here are, and allow these children to be with their moms again. The entire treasury of this cult should be evenly dispersed to help these kids. Any "moms" who participated in the pedophilia should go to prison right along with the men.
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Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
San Angelo is a town of about 90,000. Lawyers will stay for what they believe to be at least two nights - some will stay at the homes of local lawyers...
H, I know there is a joke in there somewhere and I'm sure you've heard more than your share... so i'll leave it at that
Can't find a joke there. I have found there are hundreds of lawyers here in Ohio that would do the same thing. Problem is there are thousands of lawyers here in Ohio...
H
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Originally posted by Kirkules:
Just to be clear, I wasn't making generalisations about Catholics or Catholic priests, just legal liability.
Oh, well in that case your dead wrong. The members of the church have no liability for the misdeeds of the individual priests or the Church's coverup.
That's like making you responsible for you neighbor's failure to meet City 'Use of Land' laws. After all, you live there, same neighborhood, and did nothing to make him clean it up and you never moved away.
H
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Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
I'm not sure what prompted the raid in Eldorado, other than what the media reports. I want to believe that officials were acting in the best interest of innocent victims, but sometimes that kind of naivete can get your home burned to the ground or get you killed....
Well said. I hope we get answers from today's hearing. The Texas AG must be able to justify the removal of the children. He said yesterday he has all he needs to show they were in danger. I watched his interview, he didn't seem overly political like a lot of AG's...more businesslike and professional, which I liked.
That said, the interviews I watched with some of the mothers were downright scary. There was clearly something seriously wrong going on there.
From what I heard the children were removed from their mothers, shifted around, given new names and birthdays on a monthly basis so that the children can't identify their mothers and some of the mothers can't identify their children. They also claim to have evidence of child rape and the marriage and impregnation of young girls. After watching the mothers on FOX I believe we'll see thats what was going on...
I note for the record I would have gladly volunteered to represent a kid, I used to do that back in Lawschool and for a couple years after I graduated. I think I'm still on their list, but inactive since my job generally makes it a conflict (although when kids are involved I often take a 'best interests' approach). Had to Rule 6 some kids last month...Mother abandoned them in the Mayor's office after the City shut off her electricity for nonpayment. They were good kids, woulda taken one home...but we're not allowed to do that. Took a kitten under similar circumstances, but that's another story.
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by deadlockvictim:
An interesting sidebar to the Polygamist story in Texas surrounds the custody hearing being held in San Angelo...Quote:
About 350 lawyers from throughout Texas are converging on San Angelo to represent free of charge the 416 children and scores of parents caught up nearly two weeks ago in a raid on the compound.
A marathon child-custody hearing is set for Thursday (17th). Because of the size of the case, the Texas state bar called for volunteer lawyers to represent the children, as well as any parents who want to fight for custody.
San Angelo is a town of about 90,000. Lawyers will stay for what they believe to be at least two nights - some will stay at the homes of local lawyers...
...with the remainder being accommodated by local farmers.
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H, I know there is a joke in there somewhere...
Ya mean like, "Didja hear the one about the traveling lawyer and the farmer's daughter?" (That's as far as I've got, so far...)
It was like that when we got here!
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...what consenting adults do to each other in the name of – whatever – does not concern me, but the abuse of unsuspecting minors, imo, is wrong and should not be protected in the name of any particular deity.
Yup. And yup. From what I've read (and been reading more, lately), the fundamentalist Mormons are basically just another fringe group who've taken to heart the things that the religion's founder, Joseph Smith, actually said, preached, and published (things which the more mainstream Mormons have since renounced, but which WERE PREACHED AND PRACTICED BY THEIR FOUNDER). Plural wives, "marriage" when the girls are able to bear children (or when they're able to bear the weight of a grown man on top of them...), etc.
Seems to me some pervert (Smith) just decided to codify as a "religion" his desire to fuck little girls. You can call it a religion all you want, but that don't make it right.
Ditto the Catholics and their NAMBLA-pamby ways.
Mike
"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence[sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions
I can't help the sinking feeling that my country is now being run by people who read "1984" not as a cautionary tale, but rather as an instruction manual. - Michael Mock
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the difference between a grocery store and a church is that the grocery store is selling milk and meat...the church is selling its moral authority.
I certainly agree that from my perspective they are no different. They are both businesses. But anybody who purchased the moral authority of a church that does what it can to cover up sexual abuse cases(the current pope apparently had a hand in that)should be looking at getting a refund.
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FINN: Churches, the military, cults, police, business... you'll find beatings, harassment, initiations beyond the pale, torture, pedophilia in all of them at one point or another. IMHO responsibility should float to the top, unless the organization can show that it tried to prevent (proactively) and to eliminate retroactively) criminal activity. I'm tying this one back to the "Do You Support Our President?" thread because the organization IS responsible for the "culture" that it's members inhabit.
Talk to any Human Resources Department and they'll tell you the same thing.
FREM: If the girls have undergone physical exam (and I believe they have) that would certainly reveal if underage girls are non-virgins, have signs of sexual intercourse (bruising etc.), have borne children. If the practice of marrying off and impregnating underage girls is as widespread as has been suggested, then physical evidence will be easy to find, and a case could be made based on that evidence irrespective of what the children have been taught to say.
---------------------------------
Let's party like it's 1929.
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