Polygamist Pedophiles and Papal Pontifications
POSTED BY: deadlockvictim
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 28, 2008 01:32
VIEWED: 23329
PAGE 2 of 28
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
HEY! 'Culprit' come from that!
yep, i'll be your huckleberry...
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Finn Mac, I disagree with you. If you represent your church to do crime. Your company, goverment, or church will be held responsible. The religons are covering up their deviate behavior. The child molestors have a hunger that of a predator hunts the small, weak, and unprotected.
"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".
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I'm gonna side with Finn on this one. Just because famous televanglists end up in pay-for-sex scandals does not mean every evangelist is a hypocritical slug.
I've known some damn fine priests in my day. I've also known some crazy PE/Coaches that ended up molesting athletes. No generalizations here. It happens. It sucks. When we find out we must stop it. Money won't fix this. Helping them find and pay for counseling would help, but I see no reason to give them a check.
---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
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That's the thing, predators are just that, and capable of camoflauging it under anything, but yeah, because of it's power, Faith is one of those blankets they hide under.
Contrary to a bit of holier than thou snarkery about it, it's not JUST christian faiths that have such problems, as due to the varied and often vague tenets of pagan beliefs, a lotta folk try to slide under the rails by trying to use them as excuses for behavior NO goodly belief system should accept.
Trust me, this crapola is NOT confined to any one belief system, and while folks are pissed at the catholics for the (proven) coverups, it's not like it does not happen in other sects of christianity or even other belief systems.
In spite of my dislike for religion in general, individually it does come out on balance as a positive force - it's just when folks externalize it and go to the middle man of an organized system religion that it opens the doors to behavior of this type or worse.
I say believe what you believe... but YOU believe it, don't shove it off on some middleman, look inside for enlightenment if you need it, or look at natures world around you, and the correct path for YOU, will reveal itself.
Technically imma UU* Lay Priest, so it's my responsibility to instruct and educate folk in whatever belief system seems appropriate to them and they have interest in, even if it's not one I care for - over the years this has shown me that *individualised* religion is definately a positive force in the world, with a positive effect on behavior.
Just one of those cases where empirical evidence has proven a logical conclusion wrong, I guess... I still don't care for religion, mind you, but I cannot deny the evidence of my own experiences either.
Now, THAT bein said... to the non-religious part.
-F
*
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism
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I agree with Piratecat here. The U.S. Catholic church covered up for, transferred, and tolerated pervert priests for to long to escape liability. To the extent the international Catholic church receives funds from the U.S. church, they're responsible also. After the first wave of pervert priests, the members of the church should have demanded action or left the church. Those in the U.S. that remained in the church became somewhat liable just because they stayed in the church and continued to give money even after they were aware that there was a big problem. This problem went on for decades even after knowledge of the problem was generally known to members of the church.
Don't get me wrong , as churches go, the Catholic church is pretty cool with the rituals and all. I would probably join up if the would clean up their act, and accept atheists.
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They didn't cover up all the cases in the US. Some officials felt it necessary to cover stuff up and hide the sickos, but not all of them did. See, it's the generalizations that get me. I know churches that have successfully gotten rid of bad priests. I know Bishops that have worked to make sure victims find the help they need. This isn't recent stuff either, this is stuff that happened years ago. There are good, responsible faith practitioners out there. And to lump them all into one category as cover up pedophile lovers is wrong.
---
Sometimes I lie awake at night, and I ask, "Where have I gone wrong?" Then a voice says to me, "This is going to take more than one night."
-- Charlie Brown
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Non-religious part.
If you wanna scream at someone, start with the FBI.
They were, once AGAIN informed, repeatedly, with warrant-quality evidence and chose, once AGAIN, to sit on it, until contacts within the USDOJ, although fewer now than back when real action on this front started, forced them to either act or hand off responsibility so that USDOJ could intervene.
This is a common event with the FBI and this type of crime, dating all the way back to George Burdinsky and Operation Innocent Images, an investigation initially rebuffed and refused by the FBI, until USDOJ literally forced them to investigate, to which the FBI deliberately bungled it - identifying 9000 perps in six weeks, and choosing to arrest only 12, let 9 go, and charge 3 with misdemeanors.
All too often you take a crime like this to the FBI and they either ignore you and sit on it..
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=33076
Or they arrest and prosecute YOU.
(See Also: Alice)
SOP back when Marcus Lawson and US Customs were semi-reliable you could take it to them, but he went out on a forced retirement and that whole division was disbanded in favor of throwing it onto civilians at NCMEC, which don't have the access or authority to do anything more than pass the report on to the FBI, which will ignore it.
Some of this had to do with a certain amount of legal pressure from a former victims family and their lawyers...
(Told you that was comin...)
And some had to do with the Alphabet goons looking for another Waco, they were real assholes about it coming in all ninja turtle with an APC, which in my opinion was just plain over the top bullshit.
There are currently TWO credible, trial-worthy claims, and until we have more evidence or testimony further speculation is just that, I guess they were lookin for the same press-hysteria play they used on Koresh, but it didn't pan out that way, thankfully.
Part of the dog and pony show is also cover for THIS little factoid - these folks own NewEra Manufacturing, a defense contractor with a history of single-bid contracts, in the seven figure range.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/homepage/story/33519.html
Understandably that makes some folk nervous given the possibility of sabotage in retaliation for events, but I don't think that's a likely possibility, the sect and the company are not really linked closely enough for that to be a danger.
All of this could have been handled with a few interviews and a quiet conversation with the sects leadership in an attempt to secure their cooperation with cleaning house - followed by discreetly arresting the perps, rather than a stonewalling from the FBI and local officials, followed by an overblown show of force by the USDOJ.
This is a dog and pony show, folks, don't you forget it - and until a proper unbiased investigation is done, probably no longer possible due to the ninja turtles, the APC, the overblown theatrics, and press hysterics, we really don't know the extent of the problem at all.
And for the moment, that's all I know about it either - you're lookin at at a total overkill response to a relatively minor issue blown far out of proportion by a complicit media.
Lemme be blunt here - the mainstream media has done this in the same exact fashion folks around here flame PN for, they should NOT get a pass.
The cops went in looking for a war and trying to provoke one, they should NOT get a pass.
Can we really expect an unbiased full investigation under these current circumstances ?
And let's not get into testimony by kids practically at gunpoint who watched a small army with APC roll up and start tearing their "home" apart, seperated them from the only people they knew, and then started asking loaded questions ?
Look, I am *ALL FOR* smashing predators, but goddamn we need to do a better job of it than jumping at shadows with massive overkill like this.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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Quote:
Originally posted by thatweirdgirl:
They didn't cover up all the cases in the US. Some officials felt it necessary to cover stuff up and hide the sickos, but not all of them did. See, it's the generalizations that get me. I know churches that have successfully gotten rid of bad priests. I know Bishops that have worked to make sure victims find the help they need. This isn't recent stuff either, this is stuff that happened years ago. There are good, responsible faith practitioners out there. And to lump them all into one category as cover up pedophile lovers is wrong.
Ditto what she said.
It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Just to be clear, I wasn't making generalisations about Catholics or Catholic priests, just legal liability.
That being said, I think the definitive work on the priest sex scandal was done by the guys at South Park in the episode Red Hot Catholic Love. http://www.southparkzone.com/episodes/608/Red-Hot-Catholic-Love.html
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
And some had to do with the Alphabet goons looking for another Waco...
I was waiting for this. Actually, I thought someone would side with the FLDS and freedom from persecution on the basis of religious beliefs.
The weird thing is, when the whole Ranch Apocalypse thing went down I was living less than 50 miles away. I knew Vernon Wayne Howell from frequenting the same feed store, although I was not aware of what was happening at his compound. He seemed a regular enough guy.
Quote:
I guess they were lookin for the same press-hysteria play they used on Koresh, but it didn't pan out that way, thankfully.
What happened out at Mount Carmel was a complete travesty of justice, if you ask me. The Alphabets, as you say, were just there for the show. Announce their presence with authority, so to speak, and it blew up in their faces, but, as you say, thankfully the results were not the same in Eldorado.
Quote:
All of this could have been handled with a few interviews and a quiet conversation with the sects leadership in an attempt to secure their cooperation with cleaning house
The same thing could have applied to Waco - Howell, (Koresh) was in town often. The local law officials knew him and monitored his movements. He could have been taken into custody away from the compound, but even if not, storming the facility the way the ATF did was total overkill designed for maximum press coverage.
Believe me, at that time I did want to scream... at local law enforcement, the FBI, ATF and all who were involved in that nightmare.
I'm not sure what prompted the raid in Eldorado, other than what the media reports. I want to believe that officials were acting in the best interest of innocent victims, but sometimes that kind of naivete can get your home burned to the ground or get you killed....
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