Our President
POSTED BY: howdyrockerbaby1
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 21, 2025 16:36
VIEWED: 49385
PAGE 7 of 24
There seem to be many people here who hate the French, why? What's so terrible about the French? Is it about that "They died for France, but France has forgotten!" thing (they being American Soldiers in WWII)? Because that is just the silliest thing ever. Yes Europe is in the US's debt for stepping in in WWII, but that doesn't mean they should follow them blindly anywhere. Countries like France have a right to make their own decisions, isn't that the freedom you are all so keen on? The government of France made a decision that many people in the US (including apparently many on this board) disliked; learn to live with it!
I think a little more respect for other nationalities, their cultures, beliefs, rights and freedom is seriously needed on these boards.
BTW... Germany opposed the war on Iraq much more firmly than France (mostly because it says in the German constitution that Germany must not be in any way involved in any war, except if forced to defend herself)
As for the debate... Unless there is a very dramatic twist to this story: there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, that much we know. The UN Inspectors had not found any weapons of mass destruction before the war started, that was the only factual evidence presented before the war. Everything else (e.g. Powell's speech before the UN etc.) was based on speculation. Now doesn't that make a good case for NOT going to war?
[sarcasm ]As for the smoking gun thing, I think the US should invade Mexico and Canada. Sure, they're no threat now, but they're in a strategically very dangerous position and, hey, why wait till it's to late?[/sarcasm ]
Coward
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Auraptor,
Ghoulman was entirely correct and you are wrong
*Nope, Ghoulman was entirely wrong, I was correct.*
Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
The US planned its invasion of Afghanistan well over six months prior to 9-11.
*Got any proof for that? I'd like to see it. But then, after al Qaida attacked the US no less than 5 times in the last 8 yrs, attacking them seemed like a good idea. Even Clinton lobbed a few cruise missles at al Qaida. *
Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
There is vast evidence that Al Quida does not exist, but is instead only a useful boogeyman.
* There is no such evidence. No need to prove a negative. You should stop listening to Art Bell so much, it's affecting your sleep.*
Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
The motto of the Mossad is something like "By way of deception thou shalt make war." Unmarked Israeli planes attacked the USS Liberty, as has recently been acknowledged by FOIA documents.
* Yeah, when....like 30 yrs ago ? So, you're trying to tell everyone that Israel intentionlly shot at the only ally it has, and that reason would be...... ? Sometimes mistakes happen. Friendly fire occurs even with the best precautions put in place... your point?*
Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Where, by the way, is Osama Bin Laden? He too was installed by the US.
*Wrong, he wasn't 'INSTALLED' in any way. He is self financed religious zealot. One does not 'install' a monster like that. What the U.S. DID do was assist in the war against the Soviet Union, which was LITERALLY trying to colonize Afghanistan, much as it did the Eastern Block countrys. In short, the US tried to win an potential ally over by helping them, and they bit our hand. Fool me once... *
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Originally posted by Ruxton:
Constitutional law was in fact broken to begin war in Iraq.
*Cite where it was broken. The Congress voted for it, and we were attacked. *
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Originally posted by Ruxton:
Here's just one Bush lie. Bush said, right after 9-11,:
"But I knew I needed to act. I knew that if the nation's under attack, the role of the commander-in-chief is to respond forcefully to prevent other attacks from happening. And so I talked to the secretary of Defense, and one of the first acts I did was put our military on alert."
*There is no lie there, what so ever. It's just a matter of policy and of fact.*
Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
-------------------
----------------
Bush claimed TWICE to have seen the first plane hit the towers. Either he was privy to closed-circuit TV and was thus complicit, or he is a liar. The only video of that event surfaced many hours later, the Glaubert [sp?] film, which also shows a suspicious ball of flame just before impact. Alternatively, Bush is so out of touch with reality that he ought to be removed from office. Don't claim there were NO LIES. There were many more to start the preemptive and illegal war in Iraq.
* There were no lies. I saw the 1st plane hit the towers too..eventually. Sorry, but your rambling,specious conclusions leave much to be desired. Much of what you AREN'T saying is when did Bush say it, was he talking about the 1st plane ? , or the 2nd ? , was it after the fact while he was being briefed..so forth and so on. You really do make WILD leaps with your assuptions. *
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Coward! I don't actually hate the French at all!
Sorry, I was just being silly and ironic, which was a deeply stupid idea on this forum. After all, the French...
Fought alongside us in two world wars plus Korea. (And the war of Independence!)
Are responsible for one of the greatest and most influential explosions of novelists...
Emile Zola
Voltaire
Alexandre Dumas
Pierre Boulle
Victor Hugo
Gustav Flaubert
Jean Paul-Satre...
Are among the greatest cooks in the world. And rather tasty (though not as great as they were 10 years ago, sadly) wine. And such cheeses! *Argle Argle*
Make amazingly cool films - 400 Blows, Delicatessan, La Haine, Le Triplets Du Bellesville...
Have always possesed a greater sense of style and sophistication than the English (gagh, chargrin)
And are responsible for a surprising number of good bands. Air, Daft Punk, and a host of others they never play on the radio over here... gagh.
And have substantially advanced art, science and medicine as well.
France has the right to decide what it wants to do. It is not betraying anyone by taking the path its people chose. They have to do what they think is right. And I resent the implications that they are somehow morally de-evolved from the coalition for that decision. And they don't owe America anything other than the upkeep of the war graves, the rememberence of the dead and keeping the memory of her sacrifice close. The US went to war to defeat the evil of facism in Europe and free France. It wasn't a favour to be traded in on later.
I apologise to anyone offended by my stupid flip comment, and beg their forgiveness and understanding. I cannot abide racism or xenophobia.
Oh, and I wish those Israeli fighters hadn't attacked that US destroyer under orders... but they had. I did a lot of research, and the conclusions upset me. But I still don't think that an American government could commit such a slaughter of its own people unless the entire country was a facist dictatorship, and as hysterical as the land is looking, it is still mercifully far from that. And I still nix the missile pod plane idea under all interpretations.
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Auraptor:
The plans to invade Afgh. were posted on Jane's Defence Weekly about six months prior to 9-11. Look it up. I did, and I read the whole thing many months ago.
I never listen to Art Bell. That's just another stupid assumption by a stupid poster.
-------------
You said:
"So, you're trying to tell everyone that Israel intentionlly shot at the only ally it has...?"
I'm not trying to tell anyone anything, just reporting facts some are too lazy to look up:
From THE SAN DIEGO UNION-TRIBUNE:
"Israel insists that the deadly attack, which occured in
international waters off the Sinai coast while the Liberty
eavesdropped on combatants' communications during the
Arab-Israeli Six Day War, was a tragic case of mistaken
identity."
Clearly Israel DID attack the USS Liberty. Was it on purpose? Apparently:
[Same source]
"Oliver Kirby, a former operations director for the super-secret
National Security Agency (for which the Liberty was collecting
intelligence), was assigned by NSA in 1967 to review classified
information on the attack. In a recent telephone interview with
Jim Ennes, a retired naval officer and Liberty survivor, Kirby's
first words were, "I can tell you for an absolute certainty that
they (the Israelis) knew they were attacking an American ship."
Want more? Here:
[washington-report.org/backissues/0693/9306019.htm]
"Fifteen years after the attack, an Israeli pilot approached Liberty survivors and then held extensive interviews with former Congressman Paul N. (Pete) McCloskey about his role. According to this senior Israeli lead pilot, he recognized the Liberty as American immediately, so informed his headquarters, and was told to ignore the American flag and continue his attack. He refused to do so and returned to base, where he was arrested. Later, a dual-citizen Israeli major told survivors that he was in an Israeli war room where he heard that pilot's radio report. The attacking pilots and everyone in the Israeli war room knew that they were attacking an American ship, the major said. He recanted the statement only after he received threatening phone calls from Israel."
From AP:
"WASHINGTON (AP) Retired Adm. Thomas Moorer accused the U.S. and Israeli governments yesterday of covering up evidence surrounding the 1967 Israeli attack on the American intelligence ship USS Liberty.
"Thirty-four American crewmen were killed and 171 wounded in the combined air and sea attack June 8, 1967, against the reconnaissance ship, cruising in international waters 15 miles off the Sinai Peninsula during the SixDay War.
"Israel maintains its fighter pilots, who buzzed the ship for eight hours [EIGHT HOURS!!] before the attack, and torpedo boat crews, mistook the Liberty for an Egyptian ship.
"The Israelis maintain this was simply a case of mistaken identity, but this clearly does not hold water," said Moorer, who was chief of naval operations at the time of the attack. "In clear visibility, this unique ship was very easy to identify. The Israeli forces circled the ship and then proceeded to attack over an extended period of time. There is simply no way the fighter pilots and torpedo-boat crews could have come to such a conclusion," he said."
----------
Want more:
"Torpedo boats soon arrived and continued the attack, firing five torpedoes, with one hitting and killing 25 men. They then leisurely circled the defenseless ship for 40 minutes, pumping hundreds of 40mm, 20mm, and 50cal. rounds at wounded men on deck, stretcher bearers and fire fighters. Thinking the ship was about to sink, the crew threw life rafts over the side; the attackers machinegunned those too."
These pleasantries were the acts of our so-called ally, the Israeli Defense Forces, against a clearly identified and unique-profiled US vessel.
Yes, dolt, just as Sharon screws with the US gov't today, the IDF intentionally fired on its so-called ally. LBJ tried to cover it up, again clearly documented, but I've already taken too much space in slapping one silly poster on the face over his stupid
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Ruxton. You're playing a dangerous game here.
The Israelis most likely did illegally attack the Liberty in a fast attack run. This was to justify and highlight a real threat in the eyes of the neighbouring nations invading. Their government ordered a criminal attack to try to bring other nations on their side - the only way they thought they could survive the oncoming war.
However from the point onwards past your 'Want More?' comment it is complete guff. The casualties would have been far higher under such a sustained attack, and I cannot believe that the attacking forces would have had the stomach to do a prolonged and bloodthirsty attack aiming at survivors. There are dark chapters in every nation's history - and murky dealings are still afoot. Yet you seem intent on piling on shaky and hysterical additional condemnatory facts that cannot be taken seriously - thus belittling the true fact - did Israeli planes attack the Liberty? Yes. Were they aware of what they were doing? Yes. Did they do it to try and save their country? Yes. Was it a criminal and indecent act? Yes. Were the casualties horrific? Yes. Do the pilots and members involved feel guilt? Yes. Was it a clinical attack over in minutes? Yes. The deception could never work otherwise. It had to be fast and significant and confusing for there to be a good chance on blaming it on Egypt. Possibly Israel never intended there to be so many casualites and their fire was more deadly than expected. But it was a long time ago. Let us forget it and look to the Palastine problem. But not here. Please. Let's end this.
I'm not posting on this thread anymore. Even if I get really angry with the replies. I bruise to easily, and I know I can do nothing to change your minds. But you seriously need to reign in your paranoid theories and look to the true, bumbling, greedy little conspiracies of our governments - and stop focusing on these stupid big lies. They distract us from what we should be looking at.
Bye and see you all with mindless fripperies on other Firefly-related threads.
Pete
P.S: I'm really sleepy now.
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Ruxton.. you're just f-ing delusional. Gather all the gorram clippings you want, you still have not made your claim. Reread my post, brainless, I never denied the Liberty was attacked. You're just ticked off that I'm not a nut case conspiracy freak like you are. Watch out for them black helicopters.... moron.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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^^^ So you are in favour of George "Dubya" Bush remaining in the White House so much you are willing to lie to the people on this board by posting the above sillyness.
Pal, everything I've mentioned has appeared in at least a few news stories over the lines. That's how I know... I read the news. It's not so hard, really.
See, I actually went out and looked for answers. You're just doing a Condi Rice impression.
Liars like you seem to think 'maintaining order' is more important than human rights... like the right to live without bombs dropping on ya.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kugelblitz:
The Clear Skies initiative sabotages thirty years of work started by the Nixon Administration. A recent NY Times article pointed out that a small percentage (like 2%) of the billions of dollars in net profit generated by one power company in New Jersey was enough to upgrade all of their physical plants. The lobbyists are running the show, and this is not only ok with this president, it is encouraged. The EPA is losing professionals left and right because their lifes work is being destroyed to fill the coffers of the very induistries they are trying to regulate.
What industries? I live in Northeast Ohio which last week was labled the dirtiest air in the State. This came as a great surprise to me as I looked out over the beautiful green trees of Summit County and saw the sky of of the deepest blue.
Oh, I know its the steel mills. Never mind that most have closed in the last 10 years since NAFTA. They can't afford to compete with foriegn steel, pay union wages, and retool to meet Clinton era clean air standards.
Maybe the rubber plants in Akron. Sure Goodyear and Firestone still have their offices in Akron, but the plants are twenty years gone.
The biggest domestic manufacturing problem for the last 30 years has been the Enviromentalists. Now I've got no problem with clean industry. But a reasonable approach that keeps in mind the needs for millions of workers is more important then drastic and immediate reduction in domestic pollution. Especially when countries like Mexico and China have little or no pollution or labor standards.
Maybe the enviromentalists are all just racists. Maybe they want to send all the dirty industry to Mexico and China because they simply don't care about the parts of the planet they can't see. I'm sure thats a part of it, but the worst are those who want it all gone, and humanity be damned.
H
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I dfon't see the same skies where I live in Maryland. The industry I specifically refer to is the power generation sector, wherein they have been systematically stalling for over a decade the LAWS that would bring their emissions down. The example I used was based in New Jersey, by the way. So my focus is on domestic industries that really cannot be shifted to third world countries, and which are being lobbied for extensively and successfully.
Of course we all know that the power generation sector is self regulating, right California?
The proposed cap and credit system would allow a great deal of pollutants to enter into the environment, specifically, mercury. This is a bad plan. As a father, I cannot see that as being acceptable. Heavy metal poisoning does not go away.
The electric generation industries have demonstrated the profit margins that could easily afford the stack scrubbers and other on the shelf technologies that would produce cleaner emissions. The costs are less than five percent of their net profits in some cases. Their obduracy in the face of demonstrated solutions boils down to simple greed, which this administration is allowing by not challenging them in the federal courts. Cases are being "reexamined" or put on hiatus. That is inexcusable. But hey, read the article in the NY Times Sunday magazine and tell me what you think then, that really got my interest, not Noam Chomsky ranting about something he knows nothing about.
Unfortunately the archive the NYT has charges for access after six days. I will try and get my copy out tonight and post the date it was printed, maybe your local library would have one. It is a very good report.
"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ruxton:
Doran and Hero, if it were not for the French, the U.S. would not exist.
Yeah. But those were different French. The good French. They show up every now and then, especially when all the bad French have managed to screw things up. Think Revolution, Napoleon, Revolution, Napoleon III, War, Resitance, and the '80s. Thats not the whole list, but certainly covers the highlights of recent French history.
Quote:
Instead, I am fed up with shitheads who run off at the mouth and make wild accusations without taking the time to look into things,
I haven't really looked into it, but I say you are a transplanted Frenchman who currently stars in an off Broadway production of Oklahoma! and hated Firefly and only come here to engage in meaningless political hatemongering. And you have big feet. Like clown feet. But, like I said, I can't know for sure.
Quote:
Doran, you asked, "What kind of a loser thinks an airliner could be fitted with missles?" How about every U.S. Government department of any significance, including NSA, CIA, FBI, etc.? How aobut Naval Undesea Warfare Center. How about US Dept of Justice? The GSA? The Carlisle Group? Rockefeller? NY Port Authority? Microsoft, the FAA, Intel, the Pentagon, Boeing, numerous U.S. Military bases, the Chicage Tribune, Eglin AFB, JPL, Los Alamos, the DOD, NASA, major insurance companies, and on and on. Are these all LOSERS, Doran? They have all flocked to that website.
Wow. Sure got me there. Now tell me how the Govt is using aliens to develop a TESLA device to find Atlantis in our brains.
Quote:
No missile pod, eh?
http://www.rense.com/misslepod.JPG
Well guys, its on the internet...must be true.
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Doran or Hero, tell me why Bush...
Because he does not subscribe to conspiracy websites or confuse speculative fiction as national intelligence.
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This administration is the most corrupt in history
I doubt that. What about Rutherford B. Hayes?
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And yet Hero has the inability to recognize that the terrorists in Iraq are the US forces
My GOD. You are right. What could be more terrifying to a Muslim extremeist then an Army come to liberate women and establish Democracy while taking away the right to torture, rape, and murder in the name of Saddam and Allah. If this be terror, then lets make the most of it.
Quote:
Boy, is Hero smart, or what?! I can't hardly believe such brilliance.
I have a hard time myself. I find the trick is just to let the brilliance flow through you. Don't fight it. It'll be okay.
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He/she doesn't even know that congress gave up its right to declare war, contrary to the Constitution
Not sure if you mean the War Powers Act, which limits the President war making power. It has never been acknowleded or challenged by any President. Its just kind of there, waiting to be overturned by the Supreme Court.
Or, if you mean the Congressional votes to authorize the use of force, there is ample precident going back about 200 years for this type of action, meaning a military conflict outside the bounds of declared war.
Maybe you found some kind of conspiracy website where we have two Constitutions or the Council on Foriegn Relations is running everything. Be more specific and I'll give you a better answer.
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BTW, and that the Bush administration went to war, not by vote of congress.
Public Law 107-243. "Joint Resolution to To authorize the use of United States Armed Forces against Iraq." October 16, 2002.
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That was treasonous, BTW.
How? Maybe Bush levied war against the US. Or maybe he provided aid and comfort to our enemies. Read Article 3, treason is the only crime defined by the Contitution. The US Constitution, not the funny Conspiracy one you've been reading.
Quote:
Yep, Hero really has the facts.
Naw, no facts here. How bout:
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