Our President
POSTED BY: howdyrockerbaby1
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 21, 2025 16:36
VIEWED: 49385
PAGE 6 of 24
"Yeah, and they all started dumping it the next day. Never mind that the result is a net reduction in pollutants and the saving of tens of thousands of manufacturing jobs located in older factories that could not afford the millions in costs to retool to meet clean air standards and faced either shut down or movement to Mexico where little things like wages, air pollution, and clean water don't mean squat next to just plain having a job. "
The Clear Skies initiative sabotages thirty years of work started by the Nixon Administration. A recent NY Times article pointed out that a small percentage (like 2%) of the billions of dollars in net profit generated by one power company in New Jersey was enough to upgrade all of their physical plants. The lobbyists are running the show, and this is not only ok with this president, it is encouraged. The EPA is losing professionals left and right because their lifes work is being destroyed to fill the coffers of the very induistries they are trying to regulate.
Not to put too fine a point on it, the foxes are running the henhouse, and I'll take my chances with Kerry, if it means that Bush and Rove and Cheney are forced to go back to being the corporate greedheads they are pandering to.
"We are exporting democracy because we have all of this unused democracy lying around at home. Why not make some money doing it?"
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Quote:Ghoulman, I agree with everything you say, except there's no draft...yet.
Originally posted by Ghoulman:
Some things I know...
America declared a 'War on Terrorism' as if terrorism was another country. It isn't. A war against 'evil' is like a war against the sea. This is just Windmills and the entire world knows it.
America is the aggressor in the world.
America broke it's own laws to go to war.
America lied to it's own people to go to war.
America lied to the world to go to war.
America ignored the entire international community as well as the largest worldwide protests in HISTORY to go to war.
America killed tens of thousands of innocents in Iraq.
America is now, more than ever before (if that's possible for such a paranoid people), a nation of fear.
America (including Kerry) has changed it's policy towards Palistine and has declared it's OK to steal land and kill people in Gaza and the West Bank.
America is drafting again.
American aggression is the number one worry in recent European polls. Imagine what the Asian polls are like!
American soldiers in Iraq will pay the highest price for American pride. They always have.
Oh, and by America I mean the White House. But hey, you get the country you voted for... oh wait.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
Ghoulman - dude, over half of the "facts" you posted were just blatently wrong...you can't just write stuff and state it as truth.Quote:
A war against 'evil' is like a war against the sea.
That's true...the sea *is* evil! Invading our shores, killing civilians...to WAR!
Fuck off moron.
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Doran and Hero, if it were not for the French, the U.S. would not exist.
I am so far from being a liberal that it would scare the piss out of you if you knew the truth. Instead, I am fed up with shitheads who run off at the mouth and make wild accusations without taking the time to look into things, just as I am fed up with worthless, corrupt government. I have, for instance, concrete proof that one of my senators lied repeatedly to me concering another major national topic. Mr. Kerry is no solution to anything. Both of you assume that anyone who does not like the Liar in Chief must therefore like Kerry. You are wrong.
Doran, you asked, "What kind of a loser thinks an airliner could be fitted with missles?" How about every U.S. Government department of any significance, including NSA, CIA, FBI, etc.? How aobut Naval Undesea Warfare Center. How about US Dept of Justice? The GSA? The Carlisle Group? Rockefeller? NY Port Authority? Microsoft, the FAA, Intel, the Pentagon, Boeing, numerous U.S. Military bases, the Chicage Tribune, Eglin AFB, JPL, Los Alamos, the DOD, NASA, major insurance companies, and on and on. Are these all LOSERS, Doran? They have all flocked to that website.
Have you looked at the Alexa rating for "letsroll911.org"? It's a vertical line, indicating immense sudden interest.
No missile pod, eh?
http://www.rense.com/misslepod.JPG
Doran or Hero, tell me why Bush LIED about not having been warned about planes being used as missiles, and why he sat on his ass with four highjacked planes in the air. Why was NORAD told to stand down, and not intercept the hijacked planes? Is that your idea of good, wholesome leadership? What is the Bush administration hiding from the 9-11 commision? Why does Cheney not provide what has been subpoened from him? National security has, at this time, nothing to do with the administration's refusal to cooperate. This administration is the most corrupt in history, and NO, Kerry is no better.
And yet Hero has the inability to recognize that the terrorists in Iraq are the US forces, just as Iraquis would be in this country if the tables were turned. Boy, is Hero smart, or what?! I can't hardly believe such brilliance. He/she doesn't even know that congress gave up its right to declare war, contrary to the Constitution, BTW, and that the Bush administration went to war, not by vote of congress. That was treasonous, BTW. Yep, Hero really has the facts.
Read Ghoulman's comments for a breath of fresh air, instead of the uninformed pap of either Doran or Hero. I would hope that the purpose of this thread is to shed light on ignorance, and thereby get a better country from informed voters. Right now, we're in a mess. Don't believe me? Wait until oil runs out in a few years, or until the US debt starts taking its toll on you and your children...unless they already have died for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice in Iraq.
There are but two classes of people in the world, those who are informed and those who are not. I am glad to see that most respondents in this forum ARE informed.
......Ruxton
ps: Steve580, YOU are wrong, not Ghoulman. Ghoulman stated the draft was reinstated, which it's not...not yet, but strong moves are afoot to do so. EVERYTHING else Ghoulman wrote is entirely correct. YOU cannot claim he's wrong without giving facts. Don't give us meaningless b/s.
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Iraq:
56 British dead.
19 Italian dead.
26 Spanish dead.
(Estimated)
And more from other countries. It adds up to about a 100 altogether from other contributing states. Please don't say that you Americans are the only ones fighting for peace over there.
And America has indeed paid a high price. But the Iraqi civilians have paid a terribly high price as well, an awful price. From terrorist militant attacks and misdirected or jumpy trigger-finger fire from understandably stressed American troops.
America has had the draft in the past. If a war has too high an attrition rate, it will impose it again. Volantary service are for states that can afford the losses in an existing inherited from peacetime army. Tours have already been extended.
You are entirely correct in the Al Qaida opening statement. They declared war. I was for the invasion of Afghanistan and against the invasion of Iraq, simply because I felt that more civilians would die than would under Saddam in the future (which is true) and that we should have aided the revolution after the first Gulf War, and finished it then. We lost the right to go back in when we told them to rise up and then did nothing but watch them be massacred.
War is illegal under the UN, so that law was broken. However it was a stupid law defying the nature of man and the need to fight, so no tears there.
Russia paid the highest price in WWII. 26 million dead. And they didn't even get any real political freedom out of it, but they earned the freedom not to live under the Nazis and to be their own country. American blood is precious, as is everybody elses. We all die for freedom, but we all have different beliefs as to how to acheive that freedom.
(God, that bit sounded smug and trite. Sorry.)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Succatash:
Ghoulman, I agree with everything you say, except there's no draft...yet.
Oh really? Well, I found out last month that the U.S. National Guard is indeed drafting "off-status" soldiers, quietly. That is, not a general draft but a growing number of reports show that yes in fact there is a limited and GROWING draft. Concidering the USA is aaaaaaaallll alone and in need of about 60000 more troups ... think about it. Then go read a history of the Veitnam draft. I'm sure you will be shocked and afraid.
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There was no missile pod on that flight, or any of the others. I think people would have noticed boarding it. "Can I have a seat next to the missile pod, mom? It looks so cool!" I'm sorry, I just don't buy it. No agency commits murder like that in a democratic country. No matter how much I mistrust the Republicans, they would never murder thousands of their own people. Nor would anyone fit commercial airlines with missile pods. Think of the costs!
Oi! No swearing here Ghoulman. Please. Even if you think he's an idiot, don't insult him. Destroy him with slightly barbed logic if you want. This board is for people of all ages and temperments. And if anyone swears, my computer blocks the post thread off at work, thus denying me slacking time on this board - thus meaning I can only get my Firefly kicks at home. And I'm not man enough to go THAT long without Firefly kicks.
And in summary for my last post here (because I have utterly failed in my attempts to impose my beliefs) I'm off to cry into my milk. At length.
*Sniff*
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Bush does not belong in the White House, he never has. He wasn't even voted to the presidency in the first place. He lost the vote but was appointed to the position by the US Supreme Court. Thus, it can be argued that his presidency is unconstitutional. Putting that aside for a second, Americans should be elevating the best and the brightest to such a high office. Bush is neither. Not even close!
Bush is an embarassment as president. Despite his alleged degrees and certificates, he has the actual intellectual level of (at best) a college dropout. He is dangerously dogmatic about his personal choice in spiritual beliefs.
His policies (The very flawed US Patriot Act being the most significant) have eroded the protections we as citizens are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights. Our constitutional rights, yo!!
Bush's education reforms are atrocious... just talk to a school teacher who's school is in danger of losing federal funding because his/her school's overall improvement is lower than that required by the so-called "no child left behind" program. Improving schools losing money?! What the?!!
Bush's environmental record is a joke. Hard won environmental victories re: clean air and water, and de-forestation were quickly (and cynically) overturned by this administration so that big corporations no longer give a crap about EPA guidelines.
Unless you are exactly like Bush (wealthy, white, male, christian, conservative) the likelyhood of him giving two shits about you or your concerns is very low.
If you are not outraged by the Bush presidency then you are not paying attention.
Mattro
PS: To put it in Firefly terms... Bush is Alliance all the way, baby. He'd make a cowardly Browncoat.
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NervousPete, the thought was that the planes were switched. The sole video of the plane striking the other tower apparently also shows the flash of a missile or several missiles just before impact.
The idea, I guess, was to ensure penetration of the firebomb/aircraft.
......Ruxton
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Auraptor,
Ghoulman was entirely correct and you are wrong.
The US planned its invasion of Afghanistan well over six months prior to 9-11.
There is vast evidence that Al Quida does not exist, but is instead only a useful boogeyman.
The motto of the Mossad is something like "By way of deception thou shalt make war." Unmarked Israeli planes attacked the USS Liberty, as has recently been acknowledged by FOIA documents. Yes, governments DO kill thousands of their own people, or their allies, to further their adventures. This too is well documented. If you or anyone believes governments, any of them, are squeaky clean, I have a bridge for sale.... Let us not forget the Northwoods papers.
Where, by the way, is Osama Bin Laden? He too was installed by the US.
Constitutional law was in fact broken to begin war in Iraq.
Here's just one Bush lie. Bush said, right after 9-11,:
"But I knew I needed to act. I knew that if the nation's under attack, the role of the commander-in-chief is to respond forcefully to prevent other attacks from happening. And so I talked to the secretary of Defense, and one of the first acts I did was put our military on alert."
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NORAD acts automatically to intercept errant aircraft. They were on Payne Stewart's plane within 10 minutes of its failure to respond. But it was over 40 minutes before planes got near the 9-11 hijackings. No lies, eh? Norad does not need Bush to ask for help. Did Bush expect us to believe this b/s? Here's one analysis:
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[From Joseph Ehrlich, Sender, Berl & Sons, 4-25-4]
Analysis 3: Our President, who has told us he would move heaven and earth to protect this country, did not even circumvent entering a classroom when he well knew that America was under attack. He didn't need Andrew Card to tell him that America was under attack after the second plane went into the south World Trade Center tower, but he and his administration acted that way thinking that the truth would be permanently hidden from the American people under the cover of "national security." Yes, by his own admission, under the known facts, now known to the American people, he needed to act. He needed to send up jets to intercept the plane, leave a known target area and stand ready to make presidential decisions regarding planes headed for major metropolitan areas. The only matter of national security for the Bush administration to protect is the sad inescapable reality that the barn door was left completely open to allow the events of 9-11 to take place as they did. President Bush did not put the military on alert. [Instead] he and administration did everything to assure that no one who could impede 9-11 knew anything to stop the events that unfolded. After they did unfold, the President brazenly took the position that he quickly and timely put the military on alert to protect the country.
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Bush claimed TWICE to have seen the first plane hit the towers. Either he was privy to closed-circuit TV and was thus complicit, or he is a liar. The only video of that event surfaced many hours later, the Glaubert [sp?] film, which also shows a suspicious ball of flame just before impact. Alternatively, Bush is so out of touch with reality that he ought to be removed from office. Don't claim there were NO LIES. There were many more to start the preemptive and illegal war in Iraq.
........Ruxton
ps: Hjermsted, you're right on the money. Again, I'm pleased so many here are of the informed catagory. gfr
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