Our President
POSTED BY: howdyrockerbaby1
UPDATED: Wednesday, May 21, 2025 16:36
VIEWED: 49385
PAGE 5 of 24
Quote:
Originally posted by richardecheandia:
If the question was more nuanced like:
What's the best way to extracate ourselves from Iraq?
1. Leave
2. Kill all the terrorists and make Iraq the first stable Arab democracy.
I choose number 2.
Quote:
How should American decide to go to war?
We use a little something called the United States Constitution. It says Congress decides to go to war. The President can deploy troops and conduct reprisal raids and strikes, but cannot make an ultimate policy of war without Congressional approval.
For example, after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the US Congress voted to declare war on Japan. Before the conflict in Iraq, in both 1991 and 2002, Congress voted to authorize the use of force to compel Iraqi compliance with UN resolutions.
Quote:
Does America need its allies any more?
Yes. England, Spain, Italy, Poland, Thailand, Spain, Australia, Bulgaria (glad their President wasn't hurt today), Albania, The Dominican Republic, etc, etc.
No. France, Germany, Belgium, Russia, Canada, the UN, and any other country that allows its foriegn policy to be dictated by those who were skimming billions from Iraq's Oil for Food Program or selling them weapons in violation of international sanctions, or who President was Saddam's best friend in the '70s and '80s. Really just France. To the liberals the whole world is French.
Quote:
What qualities are most imporant in a president?
Balls. Big American Balls. And this is not about having a man or a woman President. Its attitude.
Quote:
How impeachable are bl*wjobs in the oval office?
Its the perjury and obstruction of justice that he was impeached for. Clinton could have refused to answer or refused to obey the court's order to be deposed, but he didn't so he was liable for his answers.
Quote:
BTW: Hero - you can stop now, I'm not going to take the bait.
Then I have already won.
H
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Then I have already won.
H
Won what?? You guys playing foosball or something?
****
Go run your little world.
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by lokisince89:
Now, to put the two presidential candidates into terms you will understand - Bush is Mal - browncoat fighting for freedom from tyranny for himself and for all humans. Kerry is that Alliance Chode who captures Serenity after it is hit by Reavers. He knows how to run your life better than you do.
Or, you can simply remember - Allience = UN and liberals, Browncoats =America/ Conservatives!
There's a slight problem with your analogy in that the show's creator doesn't see it that way. Here's what Joss Whedon had to say about Mal's politics in the New York Times Magazine in September 2002:
"Mal's politics are very reactionary and 'Big government is bad' and 'Don't interfere with my life.' And sometimes he's wrong -- because sometimes the Alliance is America, this beautiful shining light of democracy. But sometimes the Alliance is America in Vietnam: we have a lot of petty politics, we are way out of our league and we have no right to control these people. And yet sometimes the Alliance is America in Nazi Germany. And Mal can't see that, because he was a Vietnamese."
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Thanks 'RICHARDECHEANDIA', you have restored some of my faith in this thread for your calm response. Don't agree with ALL your points in one of your posts but, *Phew*, good man!
Bibsy! Thank you! What a great quote, I didn't know that, but I suspected it to be the truth. You are a funky skillo person.
Of all the crew on Serenity, only two have voiced their political alleigance (by episode 8, haven't gotten further than that yet. Eep!). Zoe and Mal. Ianora was/is Alliance. We don't know how Kaylee, Book, Simon, River and Wash feel. Some of them may share the ideals of the Alliance, but of course hate their techniques. Jayne is Jayne, and he-larious.
Whatever you believe, don't apply Firefly's sides to the political divide. That's making obvious villains or incompetents out of a party or a people who share a belief. You do that, you have a one party system. It is getting disturbingly apparent that some people feel that only the Republican/Democrat view can prevail and holds any honour, sense or decency in it. What that translates as, is: Only Party and View 'X' can ever wield power. There can never be an alternative to Party and View 'X'. We must not stop until everyone is convinced of the wisdom of Party and View 'X'.
Instead of say, arguing by a system of ideas and solutions, rather than blind faith, paranoia and triumphalism.
NEVER assume that your party is the greater and must win at all costs. That breeds fascism. Seriously. A totally Democratic America is bad. A totally Republican America is bad. There has to be an equal balance, a chance for ALL views to be heard and considered, for both plans for peace and prosperity to be attempted. Without that choice and debate, the rebels spilled their blood without reason. When you shout down a man or woman who disagrees with you, when you insult them for their beliefs, when you slap down their arguement and dismiss it with a catchy phrase or glib comment - you do all those who died for freedom a disservice, here and throughout the rest of the world.
Atticus Finch (To Kill A Mockingbird - required reading) said that to get to know someone and their ideas, you first had to walk around in their shoes. Empathy and and understanding are powerful tools, use them.
And by the way, I am English, and I feel very strongly about America. You kicked our arses back in 1776, but we look to you to find your way to the first true ideal of a country. Even though we are cynics and disagree with you frequently, even though we laugh at you and mock you, we secretly are fascinated by you and want you to become something as noble as your heroes wanted it to be, badly. And cheers for putting yourselves on the line in World War II.
And never dismiss me as a liberal. God, that really annoys me.
The Alliance are not Republicans. The Alliance are not Democrats. They are any party that ever sought to bully dissenting opinions into keeping silent. They are any party who thought that the world should act just as they did. Joss Whedon doesn't project his political beliefs into them, only his natural dread of overwhelming systems that crush the individual - something that both Democrats and Republicans do with aplomb.
And I don't agree with Nader either, so don't try to get me that way either!
Pete
P.S: I voted for the third party, the Liberal Democrats over here. Liberalism used to mean something substantially different to the derogatory use it enjoys today in slanging matches. Orwell warned of the co-option of language as a political weapon. To use such terms as 'right-wing neo-con' and 'bleeding heart liberal' is to destroy democracy and make little Kaylee cry.
Look, little Kaylee is crying. You have poked her in the idealistic eye with your political stick of angry sharpness. Don't cry, Kaylee! Don't cry!
P.P.S:
Hero: "Sure. You raise numerous concerns and can't face a point by point reply. I understand. You MUST turn away, because liberal ideals and the irrational hate certain people feel for Bush cannot hold up under reasonable scrutiny. Thats why Bus
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ghoulman - dude, over half of the "facts" you posted were just blatently wrong...you can't just write stuff and state it as truth.
Quote:
A war against 'evil' is like a war against the sea.
That's true...the sea *is* evil! Invading our shores, killing civilians...to WAR!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Pete,
Wow - you just made my day. What a worthy response. I'm at work and don't have time to post in detail but let me say "Thank You".
As a Brit I don't know how well you know US media. I do the next best thing to reading two politically different newspapers:
I listen to NPR (National Public Radio) in the morning and I listen to Rush Limbaugh in the afternoon.
(I probably should confess that I listen to Rush more for amusement than information).
Thx again for a calm considerate debate.
=======================
Mal: "Is there blubber?"
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Mal opposed Allience - What do you think the UN is and what do you think it wants to do?
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
"Aieee!" (Hurls self out of window)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by Bibsy:
"Mal's politics are very reactionary and 'Big government is bad' and 'Don't interfere with my life.' And sometimes he's wrong -- because sometimes the Alliance is America, this beautiful shining light of democracy. But sometimes the Alliance is America in Vietnam: we have a lot of petty politics, we are way out of our league and we have no right to control these people. And yet sometimes the Alliance is America in Nazi Germany. And Mal can't see that, because he was a Vietnamese."
"Were there monkeys? Some terrifying space monkeys maybe got loose?"
What a great quote, and typical of Joss's insight. I'm glad (and not surprised) that he recognized the moral ambiguity of his characters. Imagine the kind of stories that could have emerged from this if only the show had continued. I always thought it would be great to have the characters come face-to-face with their actions, to force them realize that just because the Alliance is (mostly) bad doesn't mean what they are doing is always good.
It reminds me of one of my favorite movies, Unforgiven, where the whole myth of the noble outlaw and vigilantism is utterly destroyed. By the end, Clint Eastwood's character, set-up to seem like a typical good guy outside the law at the beginning, is without a doubt a villain. Of course, there are those who don't quite get the message, like some of the anti-government rednecks who seem to think Mal is some kind of poster child for the NRA...
(And not to be too anal, but Firefly is watched by many people outside the US. Heck, two of the actors (Nathan and Jewel) are Canadian, like me. Love for Joss and Firefly goes around the world. So maybe this thread should have been titled something other than "our president". Just being picky.
)Hans
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Ghoulman, these things you SHOULD know. Those things you listed were mislabled in your post. In reality....
al Qaida declared war on the United States in 1998, some 3 yrs before Sept.11, 2001. The U.S. took 3 yrs and over 3,000 lives to declare war back.
No laws were broken what so ever to defend this country.
No lies were told to go to war. In fact, many truths have been likely kept secret so as to maintain order.
After 17 resolutions, and then a 15-0 vote by the Security Council, the U.S. ignored no one.
There is no draft in America. No selective service, none. Service in the armed forces is strictly volentary.
American soldiers have always paid the higest price to secure freedom for the rest of the world when the rest of the world didn't care to fight for its self. After this war, we just might not come save anyone ever again.
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME