A Statement
POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Sunday, August 17, 2025 15:39
VIEWED: 7074
PAGE 7 of 10
The Democrats had strong majorities in both Houses of Congress from 1932-1980. During that time American liberties were violated regularly. The Dems have shown that their claim to support civil liberties is just a campaign slogan and once in power they abuse peoples rights worse than Republicans ever have.
Their promise to get out of Iraq was just another campaign slogan. After 48 years holding Congress it took a Republican to get us out of Vietnam.
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And thanks for playing fact-free irrelevant distractions !
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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Oh so the Democrats are still responsible no matter who really did the deed ? Give it a rest.
Well, I'm assuming that you'll acknowledge that the Democrats have been weak in their opposition to the neo-cons. So, perhaps its just a question of how much of the blame they share. The system of checks and balances set up by our constitution is supposed to prevent the off-the-rails abuses of the current administration. But it requires conscientious leaders ready to fight the good fight.
I'll grant you the Republicans have more to answer for than the Democrats. And if the Dems had been fighting back in any substantial way over the last six years, I'd grant what you're saying. But I haven't seen it. What did I miss? That's what get's me. It takes a fringe, libertarian Republican to say the things that the Democrats should have been jumping on since before the Iraq invasion. If they had been, I'd be standing right there with you, despite my disagreements on their other policies.
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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You know, I consider the haters of liberty to fall into several camps
the repubican partisans who'd take the country over a cliff as long as it meant 'they' got to 'win'. Geezer, Hero, Finn, Rap et al - you know who you are.
the single issue 'freedom lovers' who just can't be bothered with liberty as long as they get to keep their - gun, cigarettes - whatever
the people who are secretly happy to see gitmo, torture, the USPATRIOT Act, illegal wiretaps and the rest, b/c they think it's all about terrorists and whiny liberals and it'll never come home to them - up until voter ID - in which case the whole idea of government out of control comes as a shock
the people who refuse to exercise their freedom b/c it's not exactly how they want it, so - what's the point
and various shadings and combinations thereof.
BTW, does your bias put Robert Wexler in the same category as the repubicans ? He's the democrat trying to impeach Cheney. How about Obama - who never supported the Iraq war. Does he fit into the 'just like a repubican' category ? Or perhaps Edwards, the guy who said he was wrong on Iraq. Hear any repubicans saying that lately ? How about Waxman ? Trying to dig into Bush et al misdeeds while getting blocked by repubicans at every turn.
This whole - 'they're JUST like' is, well, lame. At best.
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Also, it's been 'progressives' - those damn whiny liberals - who've been at the forefront on these issues. Not 'fringe libertarians'.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
... does your bias put Robert Wexler in the same category as the republicans ?
Where was he six years ago? It seems a little pointless to impeach at this point.
Quote:
How about Obama - who never supported the Iraq war. Does he fit into the 'just like a repubican' category ?
But what does he say now? He's voted for more funding, I recall reading that - which means he caved to Bush's demagoguery, just like most of the other Democrats. Are we to believe he would have done any differently if he were serving in congress when the whole thing started?.
There are some good Democrats out there. But they're too few to matter much. Again it's just a question of degree. You see the 2.5% difference between the two parties as worth consideration. I don't.
Quote:
This whole - 'they're JUST like' is, well, lame. At best.
I wholeheartedly agree
Quote:
Also, it's been 'progressives' - those damn whiny liberals - who've been at the forefront on these issues. Not 'fringe libertarians'.
I might vote for them then. Is Obama a 'progressive'?
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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Quote:It Sarge X- YOu have an incredibly uninformed view of how Congress works. "Nearly equal partners", huh? Okay- who controls the committees? Why, it's the majority party! Who proposes legislation? The majority party! Who holds hearings? The majority party!
Where was he six years ago?
There was a Democrat (can't recall who) who wanted to hold hearings about Iraq. He was told by the Senate committee leader that he couldn't hold "hearings" but he could have a small meeting. And then he was relegated to a small basement room- I kid you not- w/ no room for the press. And the electricity "failed" partway through.
So, what should the Dems do? If they try to bring up hearings it's "not getting the job done". If they block Republican legslation and appointments its "being obstructive". "Nearly equal partners" means nothing. The best you can do is fillibuster (which, if you recall the Republicans threatened to do away with). You assume there is some sort of partnership in Congress- there isn't. The Repugs are following a scorched-earth strategy.
Now, I grant you that the Demcratic Party's vote against the Iraq incursion, US Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act etc. should have been more robust. It would have looked as if they were at least united in opinion, even if they couldn't actually block anything. But the fact is that the Democratic vote for liberty is far more frequent than the Repugs. You can reform The Dems by pressure and by vote. You can't reform the Repugs- for now they're a lost cause.
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Always look upstream.
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Votes against Iraq incursion:
DEMOCRATS- Akaka, Bingaman, Boxer, Byrd, Conrad, Corzine, Dayton, Durbin, Feingold, Graham, Inouye, Kennedy, Leahy, Levin, Mikulski, Murray, Reed, Sarbanes, Stabenow, Wellstone, Wyden
REBULICANS- Chafee
INDEPENDENTS Jeffords
Votes against the Miliary Commissions Acts
DEMOCRATS- Lincoln, Boxer, Feinstein, Dodd, Biden, Akaka, Inouye, Harkin, Durbin, Obama, Bayh, Kennedy, Kerry, Mikulski, Sarbanes, Levin, Dayton, Baucus, Conrad, Dorgan, Bingaman, Reid, Clinton, Schumer, Reed, Leahy, Cantwell, Murray, Feingold, Kohl, Byrd
INDEPENDENTS Jeffords
REPUBLICANS Snowe (did not vote), Chafee, Wyden
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Always look upstream.
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Is that an accurate list? I know of at least one Republican you left off. 
SergeantX
"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock
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"Where was he six years ago? It seems a little pointless to impeach at this point."
From Wexler's Home page
"A Case for Hearings
On November 7, 2007 the House of Representatives voted to send a resolution of impeachment of Vice President Cheney to the Judiciary Committee. As Members of the House Judiciary Committee, we strongly believe these important hearings should begin."
So - the House - under the Democrats - sent a resolution to impeach Cheney, and Wexler is trying to move it along. I don't really know what else you could expect out of him, especially 6 years ago considering the process that can only be invoked by the majority. Read that a couple of times so you can get what it means. 6 years ago impeachment was not AT ALL possible. You going to blame democrats for that ?
Now, going to his biography:
"During his tenure in Congress, Wexler has authored numerous bills including the Honor Thy Parents Act, which proposed an inexpensive and comprehensive Medicare prescription drug benefit for seniors, and the Social Security Forever Act, which extended the life of the Social Security trust fund for future generations. Wexler is committed to providing health care to all Americans and ensuring that senior citizens have access to the high quality care that they deserve.
Congressman Wexler is a nationally recognized advocate for the integrity of our election system. Following the 2000 presidential election controversy in Florida that centered in his district, Congressman Wexler has worked to ensure that all election machines produce a voter verified "paper trail." Wexler has filed federal and state lawsuits asking that a paper trail be mandatory, and during the summer of 2007 Wexler joined Florida Governor Charlie Crist as the state's historic paper trail legislation was signed into law."
He has good ideas, BUT - as a minority-party congressman they couldn't get anywhere.
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On to the next
"(Obama's) voted for more funding, I recall reading that - which means he caved to Bush's demagoguery, just like most of the other Democrats."
Or maybe he's doing what he said he would do:
"I have been very clear even as a candidate that, once we were in, that we were going to have some responsibility to make it work as best we could, and more importantly that our troops had the best resources they needed to get home safely," Obama, an Illinois Democrat, told reporters in a conference call. "So I don't think there is any contradiction there."
Strange that, a politician who does what he says he will do, and it being held against him as a liability. Do you find that strange as well ?
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"There are some good Democrats out there. But they're too few to matter much."
Hmmm ... it seems that the House democrats - with a solid, though not veto-proof - majority are actually doing stuff you wouldn't find repubicans doing. And never did find repubicans doing. And never will find repubicans doing. Like voting to start impeachment investigations.
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