A Statement

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Sunday, August 17, 2025 15:39
VIEWED: 7074
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WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:08 PM

Common political action, as has already been poited out, will accomplish nothing.

Its the common political action that already got us in this mess. Now that they have the power, how are going to stop them?

And no...I dont like the lone-wolf mentality. They always get shot.

RUE

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:22 PM

You only say so 'cause you're an idiot.

Who gave us the USPATRIOT Act ? Gitmo ? Pen-registers and trap-and-trace on 10% of everyone in the US ?

So, rather than take a little step away from the fire you'd rather stand where you are 'cause that little step isn't absolutely everything you want. Sit and burn, then.

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"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

SERGEANTX

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
How about common political action?

You know, I've been sailing those seas for the last six months or so. I've created a couple of websites, I'm active in three different meetup groups, and I donate money to worthwhile causes when I've got it. I've been to rallies, written to congress and op-ed pages, all the usual 'activist' outreach. I'm even considering registering to vote :). In a sense, I'm giving the 'system' a second chance.

And the thing is, it's even worse than I'd been assuming all those years of living underground. The simple fact is our nation sold its soul many decades ago. We crank out generation after generation of well conditioned drones who will dutifully stay on the consumer treadmill and suck up the shit oozing out of their televisions. Once you've "stocked" the constituency pond in this way, the game is up.

That's where we're at now. Winning elections, promoting any kind of "common political action", is game of unscrupulous manipulation. You don't have to play it that way, by you'll lose miserably to those without your moral hangups. And the mass of 'deciders' will never know the difference.

I share your frustration with 'single issue libertarians', the ones who'll gripe about the teacher's union and ignore the Haliburton ghouls, and I appreciate you challenging them to have the courage of their 'so-called' convictions. But please don't insinuate that libertarians remain at the fringe by choice.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:31 PM

What the hell are you talking about? Do you really think that if you got your boy Obabama, or Hillary, in office that it will make a lick of difference? Hell, they are part of the party that WANTS BIG Governemnt.

As I pointed out before, it doesnt matter WHO is in office....they will ALWAYS push for more power. Its just the nature of the political beast.

Also, did all those rallys and demonstrations, and whatnot that were had around here, on the Mall, at the WhiteHouse ect....make ANY difference in terms of whether the war will end? Of course not.

Did changing the House and Senate make any difference either? Noooooo....

So what "Political Action" are you talking about?

ZZETTA13

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:37 PM

“The loss of life, no matter the amount, is not worth the loss of ONE man’s privates!!”

I agree!
Sorry Wolfenstar! Just a joke.
Gorram I’m in a silly mood today!

Z

RUE

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:38 PM

SergeantX

I truly appreciate your heartfelt and sincere reply.

I've never been maintream - with one or maybe two exceptions none of the people I've ever voted for have ever won at any level. But I've come to the conclusion that it's time to change - you really DO have to pick the lesser of evils. And the next time around the lesser of them. And over time one hopes, with a series of small steps - you'll actually get somewhere worthwhile. But you have to be in it for the long haul.

I too do what I can. And when I can't I give thousands a year (usually over $5000 total) to groups that are fighting the fights I don't have time for. The EFF http://www.eff.org/ is THE ONLY group fighting for our rights in the electronic age. And what does that mean, you might ask ? Three examples - they are fighting for no phone taps, no government databases. and no downloaded spy files from corporations.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 10, 2008 6:57 PM

Took a look at the link you put up Rue. Good job in finding them.

Still....how did we allow this to happen? Im GenX, and it seems that our parents and forebears created this. Now its our mess to clean up.

SERGEANTX

Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
But I've come to the conclusion that it's time to change - you really DO have to pick the lesser of evils. And the next time around the lesser of them. And over time one hopes, with a series of small steps - you'll actually get somewhere worthwhile. But you have to be in it for the long haul.

I think the track record of this approach speaks for itself. The change over time just doesn't move in the direction you suggest. Every time we voluntarily concede to a choice between corporate-cocksucker "A" and corporate-cocksucker "B", we lose ground.

The slim difference between the status-quo candidates just isn't worth the effort. A vote for a candidate I DO believe in, win or lose, is worth much more than endorsing the false choices offered up by those who would rule us. But as long as the vast majority of voters are busy trying to suss out the second-most-evil candidate, there's really not much point.

It may be that we can change the system to get around these false choices. Approval Voting, and other alternative schemes, could do something positive in that regard. But these kinds of initiatives come up against the same wall - complacent, willfully ignorant voters that believe what they're told, or are at least willing to accept the lies.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

SERGEANTX

Thursday, January 10, 2008 7:21 PM

SIGNYM

Thursday, January 10, 2008 8:30 PM

Quote:
Now that they have the power, how are going to stop them? And no...I dont like the lone-wolf mentality. They always get shot.

Pure speculation here, but.... Creating significant change almost follows the laws of conservation of momentum: You can either have a small group of people taking extremely effective action, a medium-sized group of people putting in a signifcant amount of effort, or nearly everyone making a small change. And I can give you successful examples of all three, from palace coups and armed insurgencies, to NGOs and successful mass movements (civil rights, environmental, womens' rights) all the way to "orange revolutions".

But in fact, a successful path to change needs all three. The environmental movement was given a tremendous boost by "the Fox":In Illinois, a man going by the name of "The Fox" plugged drainage pipes, capped factory smokestacks, and dumped industrial waste from a U.S. Steel plant into the office of the company's chief executive. (1) As long as activists don't cross that invisible line and turn more people "off" than "on" to their message, the extreme examples of a few help legitimize the goals of the many. There is a big "however" to this scenario: However, a movement has to have a reliable media outlet.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_g1epc/is_tov/ai_2419100390

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Always look upstream.

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