A Statement

POSTED BY: Wulfenstar
UPDATED: Sunday, August 17, 2025 15:39
VIEWED: 7074
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SERGEANTX

Wednesday, January 9, 2008 9:31 PM

I'm not sure. Democracy doesn't age well. There's very little hope for reaching a critical mass of voters with substantive advocacy. Modern political campaigning rewards a set of skills and motives that are the opposite of what most of us would want in a leader.

Changing that equation, convincing the unquestioning masses to think for themselves and unplug from the mass-media mindset, is the only path I can see.

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

HERO

Wednesday, January 9, 2008 9:36 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:
Modern political campaigning rewards a set of skills and motives that are the opposite of what most of us would want in a leader.

Since the choice is ultimately ours...perhaps we are simply lying about what we REALLY want in a leader.

H

FREMDFIRMA

Wednesday, January 9, 2008 11:01 PM

"Also, is it too late to get these freedoms back?"

Depends on how badly you want them, what you're willing to ante up in order to have them.

Your comfort ?
Your money ?
Your life ?

"Can we do it in a legal manner?"

To be downright blunt... no.

The laws we have even *now* make even THIS discussion technically illegal, and if you haven't read HR1955 go do so.

Even if you WERE to use legal loopholes to try forcing change on, or resist in any way, the cabal in power or the status quo, they will simply do what they have done since 1905 and outlaw any tactic or method that shows effectiveness, while pointing out all the useless, pointless options to show you how "free" you are.

Look at the history of Unions, if you want more info on that.

"Or, if not, what are the options left to us?"

Pretty simple, really, run, fight, or bend over and take it...

If yer gonna run, be smart about it and take a boat, especially if you have valuables and the tax folks know you ain't coming back - one reason most expatriates never return is that the IRS continues to levy and demand it's tax bite on your income forever and ever, even after you've left, and if unpaid, well, visiting here could get ugly.

So they've taken to getting as big a bite as they can on the way out, not to mention Dept of HomeSec will go bananas and think you criminally insane for wanting to leave, leading to all manner of ugly.

If yer gonna fight, learn HOW first, start removing yourself from their systems of easy inventory and tracking, and learn the importance of not discussing it in our nation of informers and snitches, who'd sell you out in a heartbeat to protect themselves, or for a pat on the head from the master.

And DIY, cause joinin up with someone ?
Bad idea, most of the orgs out there that haven't been crushed are there because it makes it easier to watch and sabotage (who you THINK runs a lot of em?) the discontented.

Like a submarine, run silent, run deep, leave no trace.

Or you can say bah fuggit and watch American Idol like everyone else and pretend it ain't happenin.

Thing is, by the time a public consciousness gets to be askin those things, it's more often than not too damned late to do much about it.

Study History.

-Frem

It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it

ANTHONYT

Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:09 AM

Hello Rue,

I'm not sure what kind of noise you're looking for 'so called' libertarians to make here. The people who are 'so called' libertarians on this board make angry noises about the limits placed on their freedoms almost daily here.

I'm also not sure where you stand on the issue of liberty versus freedom. It seems you often argue both sides of that street. Probably you believe in a balance of forces.

As for 'freer' countries like Britain, where you can't buy a replica gun, nor soon a stainless steel sword, nor carry a pocketknife, nor legally defend yourself with the sewing supplies you happen to be carrying...

Freedom is measured in many ways. I'm not sure what criteria is being used as a yardstick.

In any event, I'm not entirely happy with the level of freedom I enjoy in the U.S., but I can't really think of another nation where I'd feel as free or as prosperous.

Maybe I've got crazy skewed views, but being able to drive into the desert and shoot coffee cans without being arrested is valuable to me.

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

EVILDINOSAUR

Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:46 AM

as the statement is presented there, i disagree

"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

RUE

Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:05 AM

I'll be away for the balance, but I just wanted to explain what I meant:

Too many libertarians seem to be single-issue ones. Smokes, vaccines and seat-belts are common, but trivial, points of rebellion.
And also they seem too interested in looking jaded and blasé to actually do anything. Yeah, I saw this coming yeeears ago. And why make an effort ? It's all a conspiracy that goes back to a least the 60's anyway.
And too far up businesses' butt to criticize it for anything at all. Why should I infringe on corporate freedom even when it infringes on mine ? Isn't that freedom ??
And too 'individualistic' to consider a mass solution. After all, I got my gun for when it all goes down. Why should I join with anyone to actually do anything now ?

Whenever I start a thread about this it dies a quick death. Now for people like Finn, Geezer and Hero I expect that kind of response.

But for people who consider themselves lovers of freedom ??

Yeah, I'm old and cranky and this will make that even more apparent, but really - you should be ashamed of yourselves.

***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."

ANTHONYT

Thursday, January 10, 2008 1:40 AM

Well,

WWRD?

What Would Rue Do?

--Anthony

"Liberty must not be purchased at the cost of Humanity." --Captain Robert Henner

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, January 10, 2008 12:46 PM

Rue, there are very good, and very obvious, reasons that most direct-action folks will not discuss it, especially in a public venue.

Just as I explain to Siggy, that if some folk WERE organising anything, it'd be beyond pointless if they were stupid enough to talk about it.

We live in a surveillence society currently run by a pack of facist wannabes and y'all wanna discuss your plans and out your membership publicly where any jackboot or sympathiser can see it ?

You go right on ahead, lemme know how that works out for ya.

No, some things I will *not* discuss, not here, not privately, not EVER - and this, in any specifics or details, is one of those things... I give enough general information that those who truly wanna involve themselves in something can do so, but the hell if imma hand out a free pass to the jackboots, no way.

They wanna come to the bottom of the rabbit hole, they can damn well try swimmin the concertina rolls we leave up there to keep em out.

And that's the end of me discussin the topic, I shouldn't have had to even tell ya that much, for cryin out loud.

-F

WULFENSTAR

Thursday, January 10, 2008 3:37 PM

I agree Frem. Completely.

My issue, and the primary reason I started this thread, was to find out if I was the only one who saw these things as a problem.

Also, to find out if there was a solution. I mean, you COULD go out and knock down the cameras....but that would only get you arrested. Then, they would put the cameras back up and stronger than ever.

You COULD leave the country...but where would you go? Canada is almost as bad...South America is closest to the Wild West in certain aspects....but as Im pasty pale and dont speak Spanish, I would stick out pretty bad. (Being kidnapped isnt really something I am interested in experiencing)

Europe is, in some ways, worse than the US.

Africa? Same problem as South America.

We can't even kid ourselves that the governement listens to us anymore. Its become the "Alliance" in Firefly speak.

So join up? Can't do that, as I'm sure the government has moles in almost any organization out there.

It needs to be said, and I hate to say it, because I hate them intensly....but the way to fight (if we had to) would be like AlQueda.

No central structure to be broken, no way of tracing it back to others.

Im just venting, mind. It just bugs the hell out of me everytime I drive to work. The road I have to take has a camera on it that snaps a picture of everyones license plate as they go by. "For our safety" of course.

*sigh

RUE

Thursday, January 10, 2008 5:34 PM

You all are so silly - you'd refuse to join any group, even if it was running from a theatre fire. Yeah, you can stand there by your lonesome and burn.

Direct action ??? Give me an effin' break. How about common political action ?

***************************************************************
Oh, btw, for people who support Ron Paul - I've got a great slogan for you - Want to get things done ? What we need in another H Ross Perot !

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