What relationships would work?
POSTED BY: MerryK
UPDATED: Thursday, January 17, 2008 20:13
VIEWED: 17303
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In my psychology class, we were discussing relationships and falling in love. The evolutionary perspective on this is that couples naturally are attracted to each other (so they produce children) and then this attraction changes to "companionate love" which is the affection that sustains long-lasting relationship. There are several ingredients to this sort of affection, and after seeing the long debates on which couple(s) on Firefly would survive, I thought I'd analyze it like this.
Basically, the things needed for long-lasting affection are: 1, self-disclosure or honesty about self, 2, equality in giving and receiving emotions, time, gifts, etc., and 3, care for the welfare and wellbeing of the other person. Something very important but not exactly necessary is a compatibility of personality and interests.
Wash and Zoe. These two definitely have the honesty thing going for them. Whenever something comes up between them, they talk about it, even if it is not always peaceful. We don't know if they talk about their pasts and interests together, though. They also are very equal in giving and receiving. Wash and Zoe are constantly giving encouraging looks, words, and touches, and neither one does so more than the other. Their personalities balance and fit well, and their interests work well together. They care for each other deeply enough to offer their lives to save the other. Assuming they talk with each other more offscreen, their relationship is very healthy, and could realistically last well into the future if outside circumstances permitted.
Mal and Inara. These two pretty much have only attraction going for them. While they do care for the other person's survival and probably wellbeing, they lack all other ingredients. Honesty? Only in the rarest of moments. Mal states clearly that he doesn't discuss his past or his opinions and feelings with anyone, and Inara's interactions are all about other people—she does not disclose anything about herself. They do not give anything to each other but time and negativity, and their personalities are similar enough to clash, especially with their interests, which definitely do so. The end of the BDM gives a tidbit of hope, with the hint of honesty coming out. They could make it work, if they start being honest and give more to the other person, but their status quo predicts only separation in their future.
Simon and Kaylee. These two have a lot to work on, but they have a definite step up from Mal and Inara. They are open with each other about disclosing opinions and experiences, though only fairly honest when it comes to emotions and feelings (though the end of the BDM offers hope in that area). They do give compliments and attention to each other in almost equal amounts, especially if intentions count on Simon's part, but they rarely give enough. They show that they do care about the other person's well-being, and are interested in each other outside of physical attraction. Their personalities complement, but their interests could clash, depending on the circumstances. Their relationship seems generally on the upward trail, but they have a lot of work even at the end of the BDM. They need to be more honest and give more to each other, but the status quo has definite hopeful possibilities.
And, just as a bonus, what about a possible River/Jayne relationship?
Assuming that Jayne can care for another person, this relationship might succeed. Their personalities complement, and so do their interests. River and Jayne have shown themselves to be capable of giving to other relationships, so assuming there is some attraction between them, they probably would give equally and enough. They are both very honest people, and don't seem to have problems in their other relationships, so together they would probably be very self-disclosing and emotionally open. So, assuming they were attracted to each other in the first place, and Jayne is capable of having a healthy regard for other people's welfare, they would probably succeed together.
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"My way of being polite, or howe
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I think Jayne is capable of having a healthy regard towards other people's welfare. Witness the bit at the end of the BDM when Mal tells everyone to strap in. Jayne runs around checking everyone else's safety harnesses first.
As for why River and Jayne make a good couple, elidyce says it best: http://community.livejournal.com/rayne_shippers/909582.html
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Personally, I tend to agree with you, Whitesilence, but that really does fall under interpretation. I've read that before, and I still waver over whether River and Jayne would ever be attracted to each other, though I have no doubt that it would work if they got together.
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"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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Very interesting all around, especially the last bit.
As for the attraction between R&J, I guess that would be up to the puppet master. ; )
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Thanks for starting this, MerryK!
Here is my take, which is a little different,
Zoë and Wash, committed yes, but with underlying problems. Zoë is unable or unwilling to break away from her role as Serenity's 1st officer. And it is not the kind of job that is conducive to family life, not much balance, considering that her job entails, getting shot at and all. She wants to start a family, yes, but doesn't seem to change her behavior to meet her goals. Her and Wash would need to leave in order for them to build a meaningful life together. They were definitely on different pages, during HOG, in regards to baby making...ironically, I thought this was one of the weakest relationships on the ship. Wash wants her; she WANTS everything, with not a lot of prioritizing or sacrificing. They are nice and polite, when they fight, but that doesn't necessary equal long-lasting relationship.
Simon and Kaylee, very sweet together, if Kaylee could grow out of her insecurities, they would have a good chance.
Mal and Inara, personality wise (both understand self possession and the need for independence) good match... and sexual attraction... oh, yeah. Both are comfortable with the Mom and Dad role of Serenity. Mal is protective and Inara is nuturing.
Negative points; both are stubborn, dishonest with their feelings, and too proud (that's why they argue) they would need couples counseling, till the end of time, unless they surrender to a loving relationship, and get beyond their old habits.
River and Jayne, purely speculation, I don't know...They sure would be hilarious together.
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I'm interested.
How do River and Jayne's personalities complement?
Maybe it is because I read Jayne differently, but I cannot even see a "sibling rivalry" between the two that some others have previously suggested. In my vision of the 'verse, Jayne barely tolerates River. if he could get rid of her without getting blamed, he would.
(I do however not believe Jayne to be stupid or emotionless.)
I agree with your other analysis. Simon/Kaylee can work, but I find most interpretations to be too sickly sweet. This will never be the romance they write poems about.
As for Zoe/Wash - they are real. real people with real problems making a real go of it. Each has issues, (Wash saying he could not stand his wife kissing the dirt did hint at his underlying insecurity, later probed in War Stories) but they can either be overcome or ignored. Apart from the dead thing. Zoe don't strike me as the necrophilia type. But since I have never met one...
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Interesting analysis, Platonist. I don't agree with your take on Zoe and Wash...I see their family issues as being a matter of being on the same page in ideal, but not agreeing on how to carry it out. Wash thinks the ship is no place for a family, Zoe thinks it will work. I don't see Zoe's stubbornness in thinking that Serenity is a good place for them as a problem with her relationship with Wash, though.
Ok, Jayne and River. Jayne is simple: he loves who he loves, hates who he hates, does what he things needs to be done, says what he means. He knows who and what he is, is usually good with it, and is not likely to change. He does show a moral compass, as well.
River is complex: her deep loves are rooted and unlikely to change, but her other emotions are like her namesake, rolling and shifting with the circumstances. Sometimes she is a weapon, sometimes a frightened child, sometimes a teasing sister, sometimes a genius, yet throughout there is a core of a strong young woman who is learning how to live. She appreciates the simple, because she sees all the complexities beneath even the smoothest of surfaces. She loves to dance because the steps are always the same. She clings to Simon because he loves her, and there's no complications to that (well, except for Kaylee, which is why she is troubled in OIS). She plays with Kaylee because she also is open and honest. She starts to forge something with Mal, but only after he's come to grips with who and what he is. She is frightened and confused by herself, until she understands her choice in what she does. In essence, she can't handle things not making sense. By the end of the BDM, she's made sense of herself, and can move on to doing so with the rest of the world.
Together, she and Jayne could conquer the world. Jayne, if he loves her, will love her as unconditionally as Simon, with no complications or illusions, like the rest of his life. He will always be there for her, and he won't change if the wind suddenly blows north. River needs someone like that in her life, and Simon deserves and needs to move on from that role. With Jayne as her anchor, River can branch out and use her mind to see patterns and solve problems, which is what she seems to do best.
I don't advocate Rayne, because normally it takes too quickly and the characters aren't in character. But I think those two could work together very well, in a variety of relationships, if Jayne added River to his idea of family. I don't see that as too huge of a step either, seeing his growth through the series and BDM.
As for Simon and Kaylee...I completely agree. They have a very tough road ahead of them, something most fanfics don't entirely address to my satisfaction.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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While I disagree, I do respect the fact that you have put a lot of thought into it.
One of the main reasons I hated Rayne was that it was thought of as a "default relationship" - something that could be done without much thought into the why. The fact that I could not see it also helped a lot.
I do not think Jayne is as simple as you say though. I also cannot see the honesty people see in him.
For instance, how did Dobson get that knife in the pilot? We do not know. There is every chance that Jayne had a hand in it - even though he denied it. (After Book knocked him unconscious, why would they not pat him down *thoroughly* for weapons?)(Additionally, did he contemplate shooting Mal in that Patience showdown?)
In Safe his lies look comical because the camera follows him (this happens a few times throughout the series). If you see it just from the Simon angle, there is nothing to be suspicious of. yet.
In Ariel he is only honest when his life depends on it. He also does show remorse and that is apart of his character.
The only time he shows a lack of hostility is when he is scared that the Tams may find out about his actions on Ariel.
He does see nobility in protecting River, he deeply resents this being forced upon him.
Saying all that, it is not a case against Rayne. What is is that Jayne is petrified of the unknown. This "unknown" includes both Reavers and River. (Yes, I am suggesting he has not physically come across them before.)
Your analysis of River - very interesting too. However where I would disagree is her place in the journey. So far she has been crazy and more or less just floated around. it is after the BDM where any character development may happen. It could go in a number of ways, but what we see at the end of the BDM is the beginning for River. She has been dragged through an ordeal. Now when she has a semblance of sanity (but not full sanity), she will have to cope with what has happened, the sacrifices that have been made because of her etc etc.
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You have some points about Jayne. However, all those instances made me more convinced of Jayne's honest nature. Everyone lies, everyone holds something back, but some people, like Mal and Inara, do a good job at it, and others, like Simon and Jayne, do not. Jayne's actions in Safe, in Ariel, all are as clumsy as Simon's attempts at deception in Jaynestown...in fact, were it someone more perceptive than Simon in both those circumstances, he would not have gotten away. Mal, in any case, sees right through him. He's not a good liar, because he's generally honest. He says what he thinks.
I agree about opposing to Rayne as a default relationship. All the crew end up with relationships with each other, of some form or another, and I definitely think that River and Jayne have come to some sort of truce at the end of the BDM. I don't think this automatically means romance. However, a couple or a few years down the line, and given the right circumstances, I don't see it as an impossibility.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
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Wash clearly has his reservations about bringing a child in to his and Zoë’s lives on Serenity. Zoë almost seems to be demanding it. And it was obvious this was not their first conversation on the subject. She almost looks frustrated at this point because Wash is not yielding on this issue.
And it is unresolved by the time the movie rolls around and it is 6 months later.
I've seen the strongest of couples split over this issue. It is a biggie, right up there with marital finances and the frequency of sex. If the series would have continued and Wash lived, I think we would have seen ultimatums and or concessions made, which are never healthy in a relationship. Which leads me to believe, not all was well in paradise. Like I said, just my take, on two people thinking they want the same thing when they really don’t.
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