What relationships would work?
POSTED BY: MerryK
UPDATED: Thursday, January 17, 2008 20:13
VIEWED: 17303
PAGE 2 of 5
If we're only talking about het ships here...
I think Wash and Zoe have a great relationship (like Coach and Tami in Friday Night Lights!)--which doesn't mean that they are in 100% agreement about everything all the time. They really respect each other and *get* each other even though they're very different--they're not TOO different.
I won't even read a fic if it's labeled River/Jayne, I passionately hate this ship because apart from having had paranoid schizophrenia induced, River is brilliant and highly cultured. Jayne, apart from being a sociopath, is neither of these things.
Mal/Inara (deliberately) and Simon/Kaylee (through sheer clumsiness) have hurt each other so much that I don't see much hope for the relationship. They'd be better off with an even swap--Mal/Kaylee would, in effect, be a Mal/Kaylee/Serenity threesome, and Simon/Inara would have things to talk about while Playing By Civilized Rules.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
I wouldn't agree that hurting each other makes relationships a problem. Maybe with Mal and Inara because of the extreme bitterness and lack of apology, but with Simon and Kaylee the hurt has come in less quantity and less intensity than I have seen in real-life thriving relationships. At least the latter two own up to their problems and make up after each episode.
(I will admit to a guilty passing interest in Simon/Inara and Mal/Kaylee...but I don't think they would work in the long run.)
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
To quote myself from another thread:
I just can't abide Rayne. Or River/anybody. Or Jayne/anybody. That just doesn't make sense. And I don't think Joss ment for his wonderful creation to end up as a love-boat with a slightly different setting that other love-boats. Joss didn't do that in the show, or the movie, so why do you people assume that it would have happened?
What you're saying does make sense, a little, at least about the interaction, but why does everyone have to put sex into the equation?! Sure, they could develop into being friends, and that could make sense, but I don't see why they would be romantically attracted to each other.
Also, River is mainly a peaceful person. She isn't proud of the episodes when she goes beserk. Jayne might have a little guilt about the people he killed, but he killed them when in consious control. River has to be triggered, or at least be faced with Reavers, in which case it isn't like killing people, more like putting down rabid animals.
Yes, River could probably accept having Jayne as her protector, and Simon does need a break from that, but what's the motivation for Jayne? And even if he did get some motivation for protacting River, why would they have to pair off? Simon didn't have to be having sex with River in order to care for her. Yeah, he's her brother, and sex would be just plain icky. But why do people think that in order to care for someone and not be related to them, you have to romantically involved? That's the impresion that I get, when coming across some of that fanfic-romance type stuff.
The only Rayne I can see is if they're just friends, and that needs a lot of time to develop.
About other relationships- I agree what you've been saying about Simon/Kaylee, Mal/Inara, and Zoe/Wash. I don't think that Simon and Inara could be romantically involved, because it would be awkward for Simon, but they could get along and have politically correct conversations and stuff. I don't think Mal/Kaylee would work in a romantical sense, either. Yeah, they're good friends, but I get the feeling they don't even look at each other that way. They act more like father/daughter then anything else.
Just to throw this in...
Since Wash died, I don't think there is anyone else on the ship the is suitable for Zoe in the romantical sense. Wash made her smile, gave her a reason to live. Mal/Zoe are like siblings, or just fellow soldiers. And Zoe needs to forget the war, to put it behind her, and Mal embodies the war, to some extent. I just can't see Zoe/Simon, because Simon is a doctor. Deals with knife wounds, laser burns, bullet holes. That isn't likely to help her heal. Zoe/Inara is just ludicrous, because Inara is all polite and refined, and Zoe doesn't have patience for that crap. That's even if Zoe turned out to be bi-sexual, which I don't think she is. Zoe/Kaylee isn't, really, because they're more aquantices then anything else, and I don't think Kaylee would be bi anymore then Zoe is.
I'm drifting off topic, so I'll stop this rambling rant now. I'm not trying to offend anyone, this is just my opinion.
@)~*~*~*$)~*~*~*)~(*~*~*~($*~*~*~(@
Gots to get away from the green, nasty dragon
\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!
#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#
My favorite quotes: 
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Wash/Zoe....Well, they were married, so something had to give. Here's what I think it was. As Zoe says in one of my fanfics-to-come: 'It's only once in a lifetime you find somebody who'll take you as you are.' We know that Wash saw Zoe's strength, resolve and forwardness - traits that would incite a lot of men to keep their distance, but nonetheless drew him to her, and she recognised that. He wouldn't be the first man to fall unconditionally in love with a woman because she's everything he isn't. As for Zoe's side, she doesn't seem like the kind of woman who falls in love with anyone all that easily. But, even if true love is way back at the hind end of the train for anyone, deep down they still hope they'll find it - hell, having been single for all but one of my 28 years, I've just about given up but I still have a deeply entombed, near-forgotten hope that the one person who will take me as I am is floating around somewhere. It just might have been the same for Zoe. When she recognised that Wash loved everything about her, I think she decided that at last the time had come to love and be loved - something that had never happened to her before, but damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead - just like so many of her other life experiences.
Mal/Inara....It's got potential - it's got a hellish lot of potential - but realistically, I don't think it's going to happen. Like a lot of ship's captains (especially in sci-fi), Mal is married to his ship. Being 'independent' for him doesn't just mean being free of the Alliance, it means he doesn't want to be controlled by anything or anyone. Like-mindedness is what both attracts and repels him and Inara: they're both independent spirits and free thinkers, and solving the puzzle of each other occupies their minds constantly - you might say they can't stop thinking about each other. But, they both feel the insatiable need to be in control of their own affairs and each perceives the other as a threat to that control. Unless one of them up and becomes willing to compromise, I don't see much progress for them.
Simon/Kaylee....Now that they're 'active', again, something had to give. Is it likely to last? Who the hell knows? One thing that bothers me in fandom is that once a pairing is made, everybody seems to think it's permanent, till death do they part. Did it ever occur to them that maybe it ain't? Relationships end all the time by one means or another. Simon and Kaylee are attracted to each other, obviously, but they've got a ways to go before true love. They've been getting to know each other, but they need to keep at it and reach some understanding, some certainty that a long-term relationship is the right place for them to be. People think they're in love, get engaged, get married - and before they know it, they're split up again, either unable to stand living with each other or growing apart. Sometimes folk are married for years or decades before they grow apart and get divorced - I've seen it happen. If Simon and Kaylee are going to keep it up, they've got some things to work out. Simon needs to learn the ins and outs of being in a relationship (especially in the realm of sensitivity), and Kaylee needs to be tolerant of him while he learns. He has to sort his priorities, and if there are still times when River comes first, Kaylee has to be willing to let him see to her for a little while. If they can bang these things out, I think they've got a future (provided Uncle Joss doesn't kill either of them), but Lord alone knows whether it'll last.
River/Jayne....
DON'T GET ME STARTED.
Edit: RiverFlan, I think you'd probably take heart to this remark J.K. Rowling once made. "Every character does not need to get together with every other character." Can I get an AMEN, SISTER?
Wash and Zoe
Kaylee, Simon
Mal, Inara
Love Boat's climbin'
FIREFLY
Captain of the New England Browncoats
http://www.myspace.com/nebrowncoats
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Amen. Amen. And Amen.
Originally posted by RiverFlan:
I just can't abide Rayne. Or River/anybody. Or Jayne/anybody. That just doesn't make sense. And I don't think Joss ment for his wonderful creation to end up as a love-boat with a slightly different setting that other love-boats. Joss didn't do that in the show, or the movie, so why do you people assume that it would have happened?
And Hallelujah.
[Edit - steamer, I totally wrote this before I saw your post LOL! So you got your Amen 3 times!]
Hey, fanfic is for doing fun stuff, so pair who you want for shits and giggles and have a good time. But any argument I've seen that this R/J romance thing fits canon... whatever. I don't see it in their season 1 characters, or movie characters, not even a tiny bit. If you're hell bent on making Serenity a love boat then you can make it happen, but calling it canon? Uh-uh. I've listed my reasons elsewhere, but I ain't gonna change anyone's mind, so I won't repeat it here. (Except - MerryK, where do you get that they share interests? Jayne likes ballet and River likes guns? Hardly!)
Maybe something could develop by the never-to-be season 6 or 7. Sure, anything can happen by then. But I don't see any ficwriters developing River and Jayne through 4 full seasons of growth and change before throwing them in the sack. Most R/J I see is like this:
River: "The movie's over and I'm a sort of sane little killer girl now and looking for someone strong enough for my wild, violent ways, [which is a mischaracterization big time!] and hey Jayne, I **see** through to your good inner self so let's get it on!"
Jayne: "Behind my rough exterior I'm just looking for someone who'll let me care for them and who'll be hot in bed and yet share my wild, violent ways, so hey River, let's get it on and afterward we'll kill some bad guys and then I'll brush your hair!"
I agree re Zoe/Wash. You bring up a good point that the fact that they talk things through - even if it's to argue - is really their greatest strength. Not a lot of that happens on this boat. They're so refreshing. And so over. *sad sigh*
Mal/Inara - this is one that definitely needs lots of time. As they are, they'll never work anything out. Too many walls between them, too many lies. I think the biggest holdup is Inara. I don't think we saw the real her often. It'd take some time to shake her out of her Companion mold, and then things would get interesting.
Simon/Kaylee - honestly, even though I'm writing this pairing right now, I'm kind of bored with it. They have the most potential of anyone for a relationship fun, as in a lengthy developing romance with many ups and downs, but S/K is so often written as saccharine sweet that I'm a bit sick of it. Which makes them really hard to write LOL!
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Just a couple things to address...
River and Jayne sharing interests? They're both curious and tactile, wanting to see the nuts and bolts of things instead of being happy with the whole. As I said, River seems to like things simple. Of course, as a genius, a lot of things are simple to her. But dancing, for instance, is her love. For Jayne...it's guns and women. Apart from this, and this is totally opinion, I think River finds some pleasure in using her abilities to protect the others. She's been helpless for a long time, and by the end of the BDM she seems to exult in being useful. I think her future would have her voluntarily joining the crew on more jobs. She doesn't seem like the person who would make a vow to "do no harm" or love peace above everything else.
And just a thing on Simon and Kaylee...I am a bit confused that you don't think Simon is sensitive to Kaylee's needs. I don't think that's his problem. He's quick to see that she's hurt and quick to acknowledge that it's his fault, and he does make attempts to please her. His problem is the way things come out, and that's something that easily mends with time and effort (which he seems willing to give).
There's also the issue of River...but I think that's a conscious choice on Simon's part, that he thinks is the best decision for all parties, and that will change post-BDM.
--
"My way of being polite, or however...well, it's the only way I have of showing you that I like you. Of showing respect." Simon Tam, Jaynestown
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Steamer, heck yes you get an AMEN!! Heck, you get 5,000 of them 
It's funny, how on these posts, they're started with pro-Rayne or something, and everyone agrees untill I get in there, I disagree explicitly, and then the anti-whatever people crawl out of the woodwork. Not sure what that says about me.
And, Steamer, I totally LOVE your avatar!!!
@)~*~*~*$)~*~*~*)~(*~*~*~($*~*~*~(@
Gots to get away from the green, nasty dragon
\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!
#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#
My favorite quotes:
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:Hey, I just hadn't seen the thread till later. Been traveling and all. But please, take all the blame you want LOL!
Originally posted by RiverFlan:
It's funny, how on these posts, they're started with pro-Rayne or something, and everyone agrees untill I get in there, I disagree explicitly, and then the anti-whatever people crawl out of the woodwork. Not sure what that says about me.
MerryK, re shared interests: Jayne smells things, River understands them scientifically. Not so very common.
I do see that River's odd outlook on life is something that could fascinate Jayne (I've written this kind of scene more than once) in the same way as the rain stick did. But I don't see this as making for a romantic bond. Just a quirky and entertaining pseudo-friendship.
I'm not saying that River is a daisy carrying peacenik, but I don't at all see her as enjoying her skill for violence. Certainly she's okay with killing the Reavers because hey - who wouldn't feel good about saving all their friends by killing morally unsalvagable bad guys? There's no second guessing needed there. But I don't think she'll ever feel good about beating people up in the Maidenhead, whereas Jayne would have no problem doing that. He'd be proud.
OK, this is what I see as a season 6 or 7 thing - I think River will move on, and the stunted little girl and the trained killer will find a way to coexist, melding into an empowered and very cool young woman. That person may have more in common with Jayne. But at the end of the movie, I think she's far far far from that place. So very far...
And let me just mention her social and sexual naivety. I have to lay it down here: Jayne has no place anywhere near her for at least a few more seasons of growing up for her, not unless you mean to draw him as a predator or you make them both way out of character.
OK, Simon and Kaylee. Sure, he's plenty sensitive when she gets out a two by four and hits him over the head with it. Otherwise, he's focused on himself and River. He feels stupid and remorseful when Kaylee lets him know that he stepped wrong, because he's really nice and well intentioned, but then he just goes about his business again. Not because he's mean or intends to ignore her; he just doesn't know what else to do. He's limited. Imperfect. Socially kind of inept.
As for willing with the time and effort - I could be forgetting something, but I don't recall any scene where he sets out with the express intent of getting on her good side and pleasing her, though she does that all the time with him. OK, in the movie he expresses his regret etc, but he's pretty much talking about himself there - his own regret, his own desire. Not hers.
-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
>I think you'd probably take heart to this remark J.K. Rowling once made. "Every character does not need to get together with every other character." Can I get an AMEN, SISTER?
AMEN!
"A government is a body of people usually notably ungoverned."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by RiverFlan:
It's funny, how on these posts, they're started with pro-Rayne or something, and everyone agrees untill I get in there, I disagree explicitly, and then the anti-whatever people crawl out of the woodwork. Not sure what that says about me.
And, Steamer, I totally LOVE your avatar!!!
LOL, thanks! Seemed like the thing to do, especially after that business with F*X shutting down the Buffy live musical or whatever it was.
By the by, you posted your response to this thread while I was in the middle of typing mine, so worry not, you didn't inspire any dissension in the ranks here.
Not wanting to kindle any flames, I saved my serious anti-Rayne sound-off for LiveJournal. At the very best, since the movie, Jayne respects River and her abilities a great deal more than he used to. But does he seem like the kind of guy to have a relationship with a girl who can kick his jawbone right out the back of his skull? I hardly think so.Calm is River
Scared is Jayne
"I can kill you
With my brain."
FIREFLY
Captain of the New England Browncoats
http://www.myspace.com/nebrowncoats
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME