At precisely what point should we be alarmed at human rights violations?
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 28, 2007 18:06
VIEWED: 6644
PAGE 7 of 12
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:
I was there. I received the reports every day, and then talked to the guys who sent them.
Here's what "village chief and family murdered" really meant.
If they were lucky, the VC did just murder them quickly. If the VC commander was more of an ideologue or more creative, they'd tie the chief to a post and disembowel him, making sure he stayed alive. Then they'd torture and kill his sons in front of him, then rape, torture and kill his wife and daughters. A couple of the commanders with a flair for the dramatic might then behead the chief's family and mount their heads on stakes where the chief couldn't avoid seeing them. The VC would then threaten to kill any villager who tried to help, or even move, the chief, steal all the food, kidnap all the young men, and leave.
No. We weren't 'doing very much the same'.
I wasn't there, and that makes me highly suspect of any "facts" that somebody else wasn't there tells me they read in a book or saw on TV.
I do, however, have a great deal more faith in an individual who was there and can vouch that they did see this going on.
Geezer, you fall somewhere in between there, but much closer to actually having seen the events yourself than having been a 13 year old in high school today giving me your interpretation of a topic rewritten 5 times in the history books over the decades.
That's not to say that I believe you, but let's just say that if we were playing Hold 'Em right now and i thought that maybe you and Signy were bluffing me right now when everyone else folded around to me, I'd be a lot more worried about what you were holding in your hand than what Signy had in his with my pair of 8's.
Sorry Signy. Know we agree on most stuff, especially on this topic, but I am trying to filter out a lot of stuff I hear and I read and not automatically flock to information from any source that will validate my opinions. I myself cannot say that what we have done to "terrorists" is as bad as what the VC did.
I truly don't believe that we do anything as torturous to prisoners (at least physically and mortally) as Geezer said the VC did above. But having some experience in BD/SM before, I can say that mental torture and manipulation can be a hell of a ride, and most likely, a bitch of a downer if the people giving you the torture are looking for a lot more than simply your satisfaction and your money.
I don't really know who I'm arguing over this point right now, if anybody..... just more mindless ramblings from one who is trying to come to terms that the more he knows, the less he really knows.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Grow up ?
It's not me who has a percieved need to cling to some Government as an authority surrogate to make their decisions for them.
So what options should I be lookin at then ?
Boil it down, ya only got three, Fight, Flight and Bend over for The Man.
Given the near futility of the first one, cause first ya gotta fight all the infants who think you wanna murder their daddy... and the repulsiveness of the third, that leaves only one viable option - and go on, find a spot on this planet not claimed by some Government.
I have wanted off this rock since 1977, the very moment I began to realize what a horrific thing our society really is under all the whitewash, and having watched what it has become in the time between then and now, I cannot say I want it any less now.
The same thing that drives Mal is what drives me, get your Gov out of my life, my business, my wallet and my fridge - leave me be, or let me go.
I think, having watched the show, at least, you'd understand that.
As for the VC, Jack - go do some homework on Operation Phoenix.
And yes, it was under Bill Colby, and certainly not the least he had to answer for, but good luck questioning his ass now, unless one plans to hold a seance, cause he... "had an accident".
Bad shit goes on in a war, everyone does it, everyone denies it, while exaggerating what the "other guy" did... part of why it's a bad idea to start one - I'm sure the VC told horror stories about what our Phoenix guys did too, not just ours, but the South Viet stringers who were settling other issues outside the scope of the work.
-Frem
It cannot be said enough, those who do not learn from history, are doomed to endlessly repeat it
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I'm thinking that except for the note you left for me at the bottom of your post, this wasn't directed at me Frem, but I can't tell because I don't know who you were addressing.
Had I said something that ruffled your feathers? "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Nah, I was responding to Geezers "Grow the fuck up" comment, the only thing he could, or would, say to the opinion I handed him.
Guess I struck a nerve with him, cause usually we get along well enough here.
-F
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LOL....
What a strange topic, huh?
I was just commenting on how much Cit and I think alike here and that almost never happens. As long as Religion and Science aren't part of that equation, I reckon that me and Cit probably agree on a whole ton of stuff.
And of course I'd have to do some reading on the VC myself. All I know 'em from is some videogame I played when I was a kid. Guess that's why I'm showing Geeze a bit of respect here.....
Then again, I don't even know if Geeze is even a dude, let alone someone who served back in the day because of the beauty of Anonymity on the un-tainted Net.....
But I'd rather leave the choice up to me as who to believe instead of having a Government controlled internet one day in the not so distant future where not only can I know if you're actually male, but I'll know your age, religion, sexuality, medical records, criminal history, credit history, blood type, favorite pizza topping, etc.... "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Just wanted to add....
Does anybody else have abnormally long loading times when you're trying to post here? It's only on this particular site for me, and only when I post in the RWED.
I swear... somebody is reading my posts.
(end tinfoil-hat display) "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
WE were there. Doing very much the same.
Once again, Bull.
No. We weren't 'doing very much the same'.
Edited to add:
"And I suspect that if we hadn't been there neither would the Russians or Chinese. (Like al Qaida in Iraq.)"
The Soviet Union and Chinese were providing direct military aid to the Viet Minh starting in the early 1950's. Try checking your facts for a change.
"Keep the Shiny side up"
I was there too, treating both the villagers and the interrogated (by 'friendlies') We were doing much the same, only on a smaller scale. Being short handed, we worked the morgue, too. ....Some people just wouldn't talk....and we or our surrogates did that
BTW, if you check your facts, you'll see that 'uncle Ho' came to reps of the US and asked our help to get the French out. When we said 'no' he asked the Chinese who said 'yes.' and so it began....
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Quote:You didn’t hand Geezer your “opinion.” You handed him a load of bullshit. And it wasn’t even good bullshit, because it wasn’t even consistent with your previous loads of craps. How do you plan on building your superdooder space station without government? I guess you think that in your utopian anarchy everyone will happily and willingly do whatever you want them too.
Originally posted by Fremdfirma:
Nah, I was responding to Geezers "Grow the fuck up" comment, the only thing he could, or would, say to the opinion I handed him.
Guess I struck a nerve with him, cause usually we get along well enough here.
-F
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:Very possibly.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
As long as Religion and Science aren't part of that equation, I reckon that me and Cit probably agree on a whole ton of stuff.
Quote:Don’t you use FireFox? I usually use Opera, but I’ve noticed this site is particularly optimised for IE, and it makes the render times under standards browsers like FF and Opera really long.
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Does anybody else have abnormally long loading times when you're trying to post here? It's only on this particular site for me, and only when I post in the RWED.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:I don’t know what this site is optimized for, but it's loading times can be crap in internet explorer too. This site must be on a network that sees a lot of activity with higher priority then us.
Originally posted by citizen:
Don’t you use FireFox? I usually use Opera, but I’ve noticed this site is particularly optimised for IE, and it makes the render times under standards browsers like FF and Opera really long.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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