Why so many murders?
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Monday, April 13, 2026 04:37
VIEWED: 4147
PAGE 4 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
To reiterate: compared to the EU and Commonwealth nations the USA has not only the THE HIGHEST rate of incarceration and THE HIGHEST RATE of people who believe in God, we also have THE HIGHEST murder rate.
Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Amish communities are deeply religious, with social norms and laws centered on the church, but almost no crime, violent or otherwise.
Wait a second, Finn. Doesn't that lend more support to SignyM's argument? The Amish take extreme measures to separate themselves from US culture. They're not a great exemplar of the vast majority. About as far from it as you can get.
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Personally, I believe it's because we have the largest concentration of assholes per capita here. But then again, I don't get out much....
Where are all of the Brits and Aussies to tell us it's because we have handguns?
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
Wait a second, Finn. Doesn't that lend more support to SignyM's argument? The Amish take extreme measures to separate themselves from US culture. They're not a great exemplar of the vast majority. About as far from it as you can get.
Pretty confident you missed Finn's point there Soup.
Unless I'm getting Signy's point wrong, which I took to be Belief in God = Murderousness.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
Pretty confident you missed Finn's point there Soup.
Unless I'm getting Signy's point wrong, which I took to be Belief in God = Murderousness.
I took SignyM's point to be, if you believe that more religiosity leads to less violence and you believe that more incarceration leads to less violence, how do you reconcile that with the US where we have high violence rates and high incarceration rates and high religiosity?
I took Finn's point to be: here's an example of high religiosity and low violence. What I think was completely absent from Finn's example was that the Amish are doing everything in their power to stay separate from US culture. And I found that really humorous.
Now, as far as your interpretation that the point was belief in God = murderousness, I think that came more from your lens than from anywhere else.
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When explained that way, it makes a bit more sense Soup. It's just the way you had those two quotes lined up that way. It kinda read to me as one person saying that faith leads to murder and the other person showing an extreme example against that thought.
Though I did leave it open for Signy to explain that to me. I wasn't sure if I was getting that point right or not. "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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I was out for most of the day. What I said was:
I think our religiosity and incarceration rate is neither the cause of, nor the cure for {murder} but a product of our economic and social instability.
To put it another way, I think we have a high murder rate because of other economic/ social factors. And while people may turn to religion and/ or the police as a reaction to the problem, neither really resolves the problem.
---------------------------------
Always look upstream.
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Actually when Siggy first put forward his theory I read it the same way that Jack did. However from Sigs second post I think it what he actually means is that the added violence and belief in religion are both symptoms of a society that has too much fear and doubt. Two human reactions to the unknown are to appeal to a higher power and to respond violently towards it. Sig is suggesting that as these "symptoms" are both present then this uncertainty and fear is the cause.
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There ya go
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Quote:
Originally posted by 6ixStringJack:
When explained that way, it makes a bit more sense Soup. It's just the way you had those two quotes lined up that way. It kinda read to me as one person saying that faith leads to murder and the other person showing an extreme example against that thought.
Well, I think that's the frame that Finn was trying to set up with his reply to that particular quote from SignyM. I simply split the two quotes apart so it was crystal clear who said what.
I just found it hilarious that Finn would use an example, in a thread about things that are unique to US culture, of a group who are trying to stay separate from that same culture with every fiber of their being.
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Well now... that all makes quite a bit more sense now. Thanks for clearing that up ya'all. No arguments here. 
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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