Iraqi WMD's non-existence still confounding some buggers!
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, September 14, 2007 17:16
VIEWED: 19028
PAGE 23 of 27
The point was that, it’s not my interpretation of events that could be described as an “elaborate fantasy,” as Chris put it. I’m not the one presuming shadow governments, conspiracies at the highest levels of government that transcend national borders or malicious intentions for which there’s no stated or implied interest.
Also I’m not sure that Bush didn’t see where his choices were going to lead him. Clearly he understood that removing Hussein would be politically risky. He had the benefit of two previous presidencies that were unwilling to take that risk, one of whom was his father. Certainly he had the conversion with someone concerning how difficult it could be if things didn’t go well. Bush is a principled president, and I think he was willing to take that risk because of his principles and his convictions.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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This discussion has caused me to have unhappy thoughts...
~3000 dead in the initial attack of 9/11 --- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_11,_2001_attacks
from http://icasualties.org/oif/
U.S. Deaths Confirmed By The DoD: 3768 as of 9/11/2007
Iraqi Security Forces and Civilian Deaths from Jan-06 to date: 35258
Other Coalition Countries deaths: 298
Iraqi security forces and Civilian death calandar year 2005: 8225
We've lost more to the war than the 9/11 attack.
I truly cannot speak to the Iraqi death count.
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Edit: This is not a response to any particular post; just the whole thread.
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Quote:You may be right; though I do not see Bush as principled as you do. In particular, I am -not- convinced he had confidence the WMD were still present in Iraq.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Also I’m not sure that Bush didn’t see where his choices were going to lead him. Clearly he understood that removing Hussein would be politically risky. He had the benefit of two previous presidencies that were unwilling to take that risk, one of whom was his father. Certainly he had the conversion with someone concerning how difficult it could be if things didn’t go well. Bush is a principled president, and I think he was willing to take that risk because of his principles and his convictions.
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Reply at length to 'hero'
"There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply ..." comes from an op-ed piece written by Joe Wilson. Needless to say, your carefully selected quote had nothing to do with the presence or absence of WMD, and neither did the op-ed. It was quite a thoughtful piece about something completely different. The entire document may be found here: http://web.archive.org/web/20040409230230/www.johnkerry.com/honesty/la
_times.html
The two quotes from Bill Moyers "BILL MOYERS: President Bush's recent ..." came from an at-length interview with Joe Wilson that had NOTHING to do with WMD. In fact the quotes were interruptions by Moyers that Wilson was trying to get past. BTW, Wilson's trip to Africa was about yellowcake, not about CBW. Here's the entire interview for anyone interested in the truth: http://www.pbs.org/now/transcript/transcript_wilson.html
The Kerry quote "Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself ..." had nothing to do with WMD. It came from here: http://www.cfr.org/publication.html?id=5722
The Clark quote is from an interview - amazingly enough - actually about WMD (given your previous choices it's refreshingly to the point) found here: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0301/18/smn.05.html and he was, absolutely and categorically wrong.
Unfortunately I couldn't find the entire text for the next Kerry quote "Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein ..." But I need to point out, yet again, it has nothing to do with WMD. I'd like to also mention that currently 70% of Iraqis want the US gone and many are saying they are worse-off now than under Hussein. Those were the good old days - eh ?
Gephardt's quote "I asked very direct questions of the top people ..." doesn't come with an interview from any source. So it's difficult to evaluate. Perhaps someone can find the entire interview.
Now, my favorite is from Hans Blix: "Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tonnes." Poor Blix. He spent so much time and effort repeatedly pointing out that he didn't know one way or the other whether there were WMD, but that his team was there to find out. Then to have some jackass like 'hero' reinterpret his words 180 from his original meaning. Really, 'hero', I don't think you ever found a stooped position too low for you to assume. Oh, and the entire document which was an update to the UN, may be found here: http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/Bx27.htm
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Never underestimate the power of propagnada and distortion - 'hero'
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Quote:FINN- Are you sure that you're not mistaking inflexible for principled?
Bush is a principled president, and I think he was willing to take that risk because of his principles and his convictions.
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Always look upstream.
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Perhaps it would be better to ask Finn why he thinks Bush is principled?
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Perhaps.
So- FINN- IF you don't mind, why do you consider Bush "principled"?
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Always look upstream.
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Bush seems to have some principled positions which define his presidency. He obviously believes that lower taxes are beneficial. This is one of his convictions that has demonstrated to be conclusively well applied. The economy has done well to a large degree because of Bush’s tax cuts and tax revenue has increased, again in large part due to Bush’s tax cuts. He also believes in the use of internationalism to promote US security and principles. He called it a “distinctly American Internationalism.” I think the jury is still out of on that one, but clearly there are beliefs that Bush is unwilling to depart, even though in some cases, departing might have been a better political option, particularly for him.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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That's a very interesting take; however, he has shown other 'principles' such as a willingness to accept profit for no reason than his connections. To wit, his making a tidy profit off a failed oil company and his sweetheart deal for the baseball club.
I will agree he is capable of taking positions and sticking to them, despite possibly horrific outcomes. And these may be principles. Do you feel honesty and forthrightness are two principles that Bush holds?
In general, if you feel he has 'become' principled in a more generally accepted fashion, at what time do you believe his 'conversion' occurred?
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hmm, Joe Wilson was not very clear-headed, was he? I guess what I hear when most politcos speak is blah blah blah. But when I heard a whole laundry list of everthing that was wrong with the forged "yellowcake" document it kind of sticks, no matter what other words swirl around it.
So you hear what you want to hear and tune out the rest. I see folk (dumbass Defendants) do that all the time up in court.
Its also interesting that Joe Wilson's report to Congress was different then what he said in newspapers and different then what he said on TV and different from what he said in his official reports. His wife has the same problem...thats her story and she's sticking to it (while revising and changing it). But its blah blah blah Bush lied blah blah blah...to you.
H
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