Iraqi WMD's non-existence still confounding some buggers!
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Friday, September 14, 2007 17:16
VIEWED: 19028
PAGE 21 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:So al Qaida isn't a conspiracy?
Conspiracy theories are a mental coping mechanism, they allow people to remove uncertainty from their world. Uncertainty is scary, people take some comfort in believing that there is a plan, even if that plan is nefarious and criminal.
Actually, I'm not sure that it is. The nature of a conspiracy is that it tries to hide it's true motives. I'm not sure that Al Qaida does. In fact it's very straight forward with it's aims and objectives and most things it does are in support of it's stated aims.
Quote:
I think that in order to reduce suspicion about our fearless leaders, you've made an overly broad statement dismissive of ALL conspiracies- which are quire real and DO exist (as docs released by the CIA will prove.)
I hope that was a joke or you just stepped firmly into Tinhatville.
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In any case, I don't have to believe in a conspiracy to recognize that some people have different motives that I: The capitalist who seeks to maximize profit by pitting me against a Vietnamese worker, the illegal immigrant who feels entitled by dint of hard work to have a place in this country, the politician who loves treading the halls of power and who will do anything to stay there, and the Zionist neonconservative who places Israel's interests above the USA's. They all exist. Not everyone is a cookie-cutter of me.
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Always look upstream.
And most of us are thankfull of that. Of course people have different motivations that goes without saying. I think the problem you have, and the thing that is starting to put you in the same realm as the Pirates, is that faced with something going wrong you look for a conspiracy or an alterior motive rather than a screwup. People f up all the time and having f'ed up they try to cover their assess. I look at the world and see the f ups because I understand that people are imperfect. You look for something more sinister because you think everything is part of some kind of class war.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
I love this list of quotes...treachery.
I only picked a few, the list I found has dozens.
H
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Quote:YOu make it sound like everything was fine with the exception of one little screwup. It's like I SAID BEFORE: When people keep making serious "mistakes", when results conistently miss stated targets (the economy, Medicare drug coverage, rebuilding after Katrina etc etc) either the person is irretrievably stupid and incapable of learning from experience OR their real motives are elsewhere. Hmmm... stupid or devious? Devious or stupid? Any idea which problem to tag the Bush administration with?
faced with something going wrong
Quote:Well, it's a half-conspiracy. The goals are known, the players are not.
Actually, I'm not sure that it is. The nature of a conspiracy is that it tries to hide it's true motives. I'm not sure that Al Qaida does. In fact it's very straight forward with it's aims and objectives and most things it does are in support of it's stated aims.
Quote:Someone's had their head stuck in the sand! Here ya go:
I think that in order to reduce suspicion about our fearless leaders, you've made an overly broad statement dismissive of ALL conspiracies- which are quire real and DO exist (as docs released by the CIA will prove.)- Signy
I hope that was a joke or you just stepped firmly into Tinhatville.- Fletch2
Assassination Attempts Among Abuses Detailed
Quote:
Friday, June 22, 2007
The CIA will declassify hundreds of pages of long-secret records detailing some of the intelligence agency's worst illegal abuses -- the so-called "family jewels" documenting a quarter-century of overseas assassination attempts, domestic spying, kidnapping and infiltration of leftist groups from the 1950s to the 1970s, CIA Director Michael V. Hayden said yesterday.
The documents, to be publicly released next week, also include accounts of break-ins and theft, the agency's opening of private mail to and from China and the Soviet Union, wiretaps and surveillance of journalists, and a series of "unwitting" tests on U.S. civilians, including the use of drugs.
www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/21/AR20070621024
34.html
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:They can be used that way, yes.
Originally posted by Fletch2:
Conspiracy theories are a mental coping mechanism,
But I grow tired of you black & white clowns* trying to tie everything up in a nice neat package.
Right OR left, all conspiracy OR no conspiracies, war OR peace...
Hey, if you want to be fit, should you eat right OR exercise? Should you avoid getting colds OR broken bones?
Are the Dems OR the Repos jerks?
(* just an expression for humourous effect- not to be taken personally)
Getting my drift? Chrisisall
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Folk wisdom
Just b/c you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.
Even paranoids have real enemies.
***************************************************************
"Global warming - it's not just a fact, it's a choice."
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Hero- There you go again unable to process new information. As I said before any statements before approximately 2003 are suspect because they did not have UNMOVIC's assessment at-hand.
Fair enough:
"There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply with the inspectors or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself if the United States comes after him. And he will use them; we should be under no illusion about that."- Joe Wilson (you know, the fella who supposedly "knew" at this point that Saddam didn't have WMDs), Feb 6, 2003.
"BILL MOYERS: President Bush's recent speech to the American Enterprise Institute, he said, let me quote it to you. "The danger posed by Saddam Hussein and his weapons cannot be ignored or wished away." You agree with that?
JOE WILSON: I agree with that. Sure." Feb 28, 2003
then:
"BILL MOYERS: "The danger must be confronted." You agree with that? "We would hope that the Iraqi regime will meet the demands of the United Nations and disarm fully and peacefully. If it does not, we are prepared to disarm Iraq by force. Either way, this danger will be removed. The safety of the American people depends on ending this direct and growing threat." You agree with that?
JOE WILSON: I agree with that. Sure. The President goes on to say in that speech, as he did in the State of the Union Address, is we will liberate Iraq from a brutal dictator. All of which is true." also Feb 28, 2003 (and on TV, why it almost seems like Joe, back from his double secret trip to Africa, seems to thinks that Saddam has WMDs).
"People can quarrel with whether we should have more troops in Afghanistan or internationalize Iraq or whatever, but it is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons." - President Clinton, July 22, 2003.
"Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for 12 years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations."- Senator John Kerry, March 17, 2003 (back when he thought he could be President).
"There's a lot of stuff hidden in a lot of different places, Miles, and I'm not sure that we know where it all is. People in Iraq do. The scientists know some of it. Some of the military, the low ranking military; some of Saddam Hussein's security organizations. There's a big organization in place to cover and deceive and prevent anyone from knowing about this." General Wesley Clark, January 18, 2003
"Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe today that we are not safer with his capture, don't have the judgment to be President, or the credibility to be elected President." John Kerry, December 16, 2003 (explaining why he does not have the judgement or credibility to be President)
"I asked very direct questions of the top people in the CIA and people who'd served in the Clinton administration. And they said they believed that Saddam Hussein either had weapons or had the components of weapons or the ability to quickly make weapons of mass destruction." Dick Gephardt, Nov. 2, 2003
"The nerve agent VX is one of the most toxic ever developed. 13,000 chemical bombs were dropped by the Iraqi Air Force between 1983 and 1988, while Iraq has declared that 19,500 bombs were consumed during this period. Thus, there is a discrepancy of 6,500 bombs. The amount of chemical agent in these bombs would be in the order of about 1,000 tonnes." Dr. Hans Blix, Chief UN Weapons Inspector, January 27, 2003 (gee, I wonder if he read the report you mentioned...)
It goes on...and on...and then some...
"We have the right to kill 4 million Americans -- 2 million of them children...Furthermore, it is our right to fight them with chemical and biological weapons, so as to afflict them with the fatal maladies that have afflicted the Muslims because of the [Americans'] chemical and biological weapons." Al Queda Statement, 2002.
H
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Quote:Well for a good number of those years I was a sperm or maybe a protein molecule. For the others I was rational enough not to invent some Leftist conspiracy theory to accuse the defense industry of being some ephemeral ubiquitous shadow government.
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:WHAAA???? Where have you BEEN for the last 50 years?
The idea that contractors represent some sort of shadow government is pretty unlikely, but it is a new one.
There was also kind of a transitional period where I was mostly interested in dinosaurs.
Quote:Oh now come on. We both know that you’ll never be able to convince yourself of the conspiracy theories unless you hurt someones feelings or make someone feel humiliated and unimportant. Just call me a lying son of a bitch and get it off your chest.
Originally posted by SignyM:
Finn, I just don't know what to say. I'm trying to be polite.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:Quote:YOu make it sound like everything was fine with the exception of one little screwup. It's like I SAID BEFORE: When people keep making serious "mistakes", when results conistently miss stated targets (the economy, Medicare drug coverage, rebuilding after Katrina etc etc) either the person is irretrievably stupid and incapable of learning from experience OR their real motives are elsewhere. Hmmm... stupid or devious? Devious or stupid? Any idea which problem to tag the Bush administration with? .
faced with something going wrong
I vote for stupid (but I didnt vote FOR stupid)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
There was also kind of a transitional period where I was mostly interested in dinosaurs.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!
I love that- it was priceless!!LOL
Uhhh..heh heh I forgot what the argument was....
Chrisisall...
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I thought I'd supply a little levity. It's a game called
SPOT THE DIFFERENCES
Bush's 2002 SOTU, with a few minor changes. See if YOU can spot the differences. 
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, Vice President Cheney, members of Congress, distinguished guests, fellow citizens: As we gather tonight, our nation is at war, our economy is in recession, and the civilized world faces unprecedented dangers. But, lets not dwell on my recent accomplishments. Lets focus on Afghanistan which is small, far away, and where US media cannot get information.
We last met in an hour or so, maybe a few weeks or so, or something, of shock and suffering. In four short months, our nation has comforted the victims, begun to rebuild New York and the Pentagon, rallied a great coalition, captured, arrested, and rid the world of thousands of terrorists, destroyed Afghanistan's terrorist training camps, just about saved a people from starvation and freed a country from brutal Taliban oppression, to find freedom under the warlords.
The American flag flies again over our embassy in Kabul. Terrorists who once occupied Afghanistan now occupy cells at Guantanamo Bay. And terrorist leaders who urged followers to sacrifice their lives are running for their own.
America and Afghanistan are now allies against terror. We'll be partners in rebuilding that country. Unocal will have its pipeline. And this evening we welcome the distinguished interim leader and figurehead of a liberated Afghanistan: Chairman Hamid Karzai, the Mayor of Kabul.
The last time we met in this chamber, the mothers and daughters of Afghanistan were captives in their own homes, forbidden from working or going to school. Today women are free and are part of Afghanistan's new government. Our own female statues are behind a modesty veils. And we welcome the new Minister of Women's Affairs, Doctor Sima Samar.
We have placed large-scale forces on Afghani soil for an indefinite time in our endless search for Osama bin Laden and Mullah Mohammed Omar. Our progress is a tribute to the spirit of the Afghan people, to the resolve of our coalition, and to the might of the United States military. When I called our troops into action, I did so with complete confidence in their courage and skill. And tonight, thanks to them, we are winning the war on terror. The man and women of our Armed Forces have delivered a message now clear to every enemy of the United States: Even 7,000 miles away, across oceans and continents, on mountaintops and in caves -- you will not escape the injustice of this nation.
For many Americans, these four months have brought sorrow, and pain that will never completely go away. Every day a retired firefighter returns to Ground Zero, to feel closer to his two sons who died there. At a memorial in New York, a little boy left his football with a note for his lost father: Dear Daddy, please take this to heaven. I don't want to play football until I can play with you again some day. It will be a long time before that boy can play with his daddy.
Last month, at the grave of her husband, Michael, a CIA officer and Marine who died in Mazur-e-Sharif, Shannon Spann said these words of farewell: "Semper Fi, my love." Shannon is with us tonight.
Shannon, I assure you and all who have lost a loved one that our cause is just, and our country will never forget the debt we owe Michael and all who gave their lives for freedom.
Our enemies send other people's children into holy war. We are different, somehow.
Our cause is just, and it continues. Our discoveries in Afghanistan confirmed our worst fears, and showed us the true scope of the task ahead. We have seen the depth of our enemies' hatred in videos, where they laugh about the loss of innocent life. And the depth of their hatred is equaled by the madness of the destruction they design. We must be their equals, and more. We have found diagrams of American nuclear power plants and public water facilities, detailed instructions for making
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