Xander was a Fool to Leave Anya at the Altar

POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Friday, June 1, 2007 03:36
VIEWED: 9701
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AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 11:53 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You're not reading me right.

I'm saying that it is irrelevant who Xander did it to. It could have been a human woman he did it to, as well.

It's his action I'm judging.

None of this implies in any way what I think of Anya herself.

Oh ok. Fair enough. His actions are human full with human frailties so I guess, yes they're not very mature, but then mature people are vulnerable to childish behavior too.

I'm glad we cleared up the misunderstanding between us, but well have to agree to disagree with regard to how we judge what he did. :)

THESOMNAMBULIST

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 12:04 PM

Originally posted by AgentRouka:

Quote:

I'm glad we cleared up the misunderstanding between us, but well have to agree to disagree with regard to how we judge what he did. :)

Cool friends it is

www.cirqus.com

DEEPGIRL187

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:01 PM

It's been an interesting discussion so far, but there's one thing that I havent' seen anyone address.

Has anyone really stopped to think why Anya became a vengenance demon? It wasn't just to inflict random damage, at least, not in my mind. She saw herself as justice itself for all women who had been hurt or downtrodden in some way. Now I'm not saying that justifies all of her actions, so please don't distort what I'm trying to say. But the feeling I get from certain posts is that Anya killed just for the fun of it, that there was no purpose (at least in her mind) behind what she was doing. What she was doing wasn't right, but she did believe in her actions.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:10 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by RiveR6213:
not even Anya an ex-Vengeance demon deserved that.

Let's take a step back in the Galactic Tribunal here....
Anyanka, you are found guilty of quite a few hundred counts of murder, disfiguration, transmogrification, torture, time-line alteration, and self-rightiousness. You are hereby sentanced to be left at the altar by your boyfriend, and killed quickly at the final battle of the Sunnydale Hellmouth.

She got off lightly in the big picture, don't you think?

Judge Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:11 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
What she was doing wasn't right, but she did believe in her actions.

What? Like Bush?

Chrisisall

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 3:18 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:

I'm saying that it is irrelevant who Xander did it to. It could have been a human woman he did it to, as well.

It's his action I'm judging.

Back to the Galactic Tribunal:

Alexander Harris, you have been found guilty of the lack of posession of introspection commonly found in persons quite beyond you in years, as well as being emotionally intoxicated due to Anya's complete and delightful attention. You are sentanced to lose an eye, as well as the girl herself.

Wow. Judge Dredd-like. Sorta harsh, no?

I AM the law Chrisisall

RUGBUG

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 4:28 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by deepgirl187:
It's been an interesting discussion so far, but there's one thing that I havent' seen anyone address.

Has anyone really stopped to think why Anya became a vengenance demon? It wasn't just to inflict random damage, at least, not in my mind. She saw herself as justice itself for all women who had been hurt or downtrodden in some way. Now I'm not saying that justifies all of her actions, so please don't distort what I'm trying to say. But the feeling I get from certain posts is that Anya killed just for the fun of it, that there was no purpose (at least in her mind) behind what she was doing. What she was doing wasn't right, but she did believe in her actions.

IMO, both times Anya became a vengeance demon it was because she had been scorned by the man in her life. Later, after the pain she was feeling wore off, she made it about justice for women. Add to that the vengeance is a VERY immature emotion/action...and she really isn't all that.

Her only redemption comes in the fact that her second round as a VD (heh) was lackluster. Being human again, and probably loving Xander, helped her grow...and to outgrow the immature vengeance notion.

Xander also grew from the experience...which is really what life is about.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

DEEPGIRL187

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 5:38 PM

Quote:
HALFREK: But, Anyanka, there's a whole world out there.

ANYA: Yes, filled with wronged women who need my help.

HALFREK: Oh, but you're talking work.

ANYA: I'm talking about life. Vengeance is what I do, Halfrek. I don't need anything else. Vengeance is what I am.

I still can't agree that Anya wanting to be a vengeance demon was an immature notion. It may have started out that way, but I really think that Anya felt this was her calling. Maybe it wasn't the best one, and maybe she learned better ways to handle her problems, but it's what she believed in. There was never any other time in her life that she really had as much direction and drive.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."

RUGBUG

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 5:59 PM

Quote:
TARA: I thought vengeance demons only punished men who wronged women.
HALFREK: Oh, that was Anya's little raison d'être. Most of us try to be a little more well-rounded. And actually, we prefer 'justice demon.' Okay? FYI.
ANYA: Well-rounded, huh? Is that how you explain your thing for bad parents?
HALFREK: Oh, it's not a thing. The children need me.
ANYA: Hmm! (coughing)Daddy issues(coughing)

Quote:

WILLOW I got the impression that you enjoyed - inflicting.

ANYA Well, causing pain sounds really cool, I know, but turns out it's really upsetting. Didn't use to be.

Quote:

D'HOFFRYN Perhaps, but Anyanka is who you are.

ANYA What would I have to do?

D'HOFFRYN What you do best. Help wronged women punish evil men.

ANYA Vengeance.

D'HOFFRYN But only to those who deserve it.

ANYA They all deserve it.

D'HOFFRYN That's where I was going with that, yeah.

The 'help wronged women punish evil men was D'Hoffryn's sales pitch. He knew what to say to get to Anya. In the heat of the moment, she turned Olaf into a troll and D'Hoffryn appears and takes advantage of that. If D'Hoffryn had given Aud a chance to cool off, the outcome would likely have been different.

And if it really were her 'calling', she would've continued to 'help' wronged woman, probably by actualy helping, even after she became human. Instead, she was happy and in love, so there was no need to help anyone. Make her miserable again, scorned by another man, and back to vengeance with her.

Quite immature, IMO.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

AGENTROUKA

Wednesday, May 23, 2007 10:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Back to the Galactic Tribunal:

Alexander Harris, you have been found guilty of the lack of posession of introspection commonly found in persons quite beyond you in years, as well as being emotionally intoxicated due to Anya's complete and delightful attention. You are sentanced to lose an eye, as well as the girl herself.

Wow. Judge Dredd-like. Sorta harsh, no?

I AM the law Chrisisall

Why so snappy? Just because I hold people to a certain standard of reflection and honesty?

You say 22 is too young to be held up to that kind of standard, I simply disagree. That seems to be our main point of conflict, I suppose.

Are some ages more likely not to adhere to it? Yes. Are they unable to help it? Not really, in my opinion. It's nearly the only standard of respectful human interaction there is. There's never a viable excuse not to adhere to it. Reasons? Yes. Excuses? No.

And just like I'm not concerned with matters of who deserved what, I'm not really interested in matters of punishment, either. That's your idea.

All I'm looking at is the cowardice of not examining his doubts at the expense of someone else's emotional well-being to the point of letting it come as far as it did. Childish. Selfish. Cowardly. Why he was childish, selfish and cowardly is largely unimportant to me in labeling that behavior. For all I care, Anya might have forgiven him for it the next day and they would have been happy forever after, I would still label his actions that way. Same if it had been her doing it to him.

*shrug*

I'll have to live with being labeled harsh as a consequence of that.

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