Xander was a Fool to Leave Anya at the Altar
POSTED BY: RiveR6213
UPDATED: Friday, June 1, 2007 03:36
VIEWED: 9701
PAGE 4 of 8
Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
I see your point, but remember, he was a late-blooming 22 year-old...just barely an adult by many standards. And he CARED who he hurt, he just couldn't SEE any way around that.
Poor Xan...Chrisisall
Maybe my perspective is skewed because I'm pretty close in age to him. I can't consider him a kid the way I would a 16 or 18-year-old. 22 is an adult.
It's that lack of honest reflection that bugs me. He could have seen. He, on a level, chose not to. He's not thinking ahead, even though part of him must have known the issues. That's the uncaring part, because actually caring means sucking it up and facing truths before you're about to drown in them. To prevent exactly that sort of cruel incident of humiliating another person in such a way.
Marriage is serious, and Anya takes it seriously enough that he doesn't have an excuse of just being carried away by the giddy mood like, say, Britney Spears. To use a bad example.
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Willful blindness? Dishonesty? Part of him had to know?
You know, it's quite possible to not know your own feelings on a subject. To think you're headed in the right direction and even if you have misgivings (as many people do about marriage) to believe it is the way you should proceed.
You have an awfully black and white perception of this issue. I would never say Xander KNEW he was lying to himself.
I suppose since I'm a very self-aware person who has been caught in a situation that was similar and getting out of it cost me a LOT, I sympathize with Xander. I wasn't lying to myself, I just thought, hey...this is a good thing. It's a grown up thing...and quickly found out it made me miserable. My only choice at that point was to get out and get out fast.
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"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
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I think it's the "should" there, that prevents me from sympathizing. The "thing to do" attitude. It's not just yourself, after all.
It's not hard to just take a step back and wait until you know how you feel. It's the responsible thing.
Following a "should".. that's a risk you take with yourself - and another person. Unless every misgiving and uncertainty is on the table up-front, you're making them a test subject to a degree they might not realize.
Is it a mistake that people make? All the time. Is it something I consider easily forgivable because oh-so-understandable? No. It's laziness at best, cold cowardice at worst.
I could, in fact, forgive it more easily if it was aknowledged as those things, instead of considered something that couln't be helped.
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
THESOMNABULIST --
so what if Anya was a vengeance demon and had racked up bad karma to the high heavens?
That doesn't justify what Xander did any more than his leaving her at the altar makes up for what she did.
He behaved in a really shitty, really childish and cowardly way and nothing Anya ever did takes away from that.
I'm all for judging people by what they do, right or wrong, not whether the victim "had it coming".
I agree completely, and good point. What Xander did was not very nice. He should have stopped everything before it got into marriage territory, and you are correct, he did behave in a cowardly fashion and not even Anya an ex-Vengeance demon deserved that. I don't know about you but I had a problem with Xander wanting to go back to boyfriend girlfriend status. If that were to have happened to me I would find that hard to do even if I still loved the guy, but this is television so I guess they can get away with things like that.
-River
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Naturally, I agree with Chris on the subject.
I personally think 21 or 22 is too young to get married even in the real world anyway. He made an understandably impulsive and sweet decision to propose to Anya before facing Glory in "The Gift", but I never once thought it was the right thing to do. At that age, you should be traveling and meeting people (I don't mean the spring break kind), getting your own life together and figuring out who you are, if you haven't already. Anya, at the age that she was, should have understood that and insisted that they wait until the time was actually right to marry. That was a sort of flaw in her, I think, that she still, at 1120+, understand what it takes to make a relationship work. She always clung to what she knew, remember? Vengenance, and relationships. Neither of which ever made her happy because she couldn't figure out how to actually BE happy.
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"What if you could have the power? Now? In every generation, one Slayer is born...because a bunch of men who died thousands of years ago made up that rule...
So I say we change the rule. I say my power should be our power...
Every girl who could have the power, will have the power. Can stand up, will stand up...
Make your choice. Are you ready to be strong?"--Buffy Summers, May 20, 2003
"In Joss We Trust."
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Quote:
so what if Anya was a vengeance demon and had racked up bad karma to the high heavens?
So what? So everything. Don't you realise you are judging Xander on his childish indiscretiions and disregarding Anya's more serious murderous actions and intent by the way. Xander may have caused harm but it was not intended. Anya's soul purpose was to inflict revenge often by death. That's murder by INTENT. It doesn't even come close to Xander's (human) misdemeanours
Quote:
That doesn't justify what Xander did any more than his leaving her at the altar makes up for what she did.
It's not about making up for what she did, it's about your dislike for Xander based on his very minor indiscretions compared to you genial appraisal of Anya's personality and your removal of her past indiscretions which by the way are extreme!
Quote:
He behaved in a really shitty, really childish and cowardly way and nothing Anya ever did takes away from that.
You serious? Her thousand year rampage as a vengence demon has no bearing on things? HOw are you forming your personality on Anya then... does her past not concern you ?
Quote:
I'm all for judging people by what they do, right or wrong, not whether the victim "had it coming.
Look there was an angle on this thead about Xander being a fool and disliked for his actions. Fine fair play to you, but if you do that then surely you must engage the same principals of judgement to Anya, and should you do that you'd actually find that Anya is the person you should dislike more. Yet you don't. That I find curious. As such I find there is a conflict in your argument. That's all.
www.cirqus.com
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You're not reading me right.
I'm saying that it is irrelevant who Xander did it to. It could have been a human woman he did it to, as well.
It's his action I'm judging.
None of this implies in any way what I think of Anya herself.
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Originally posted by RiveR6213:
Quote:
agree completely, and good point. What Xander did was not very nice. He should have stopped everything before it got into marriage territory
He did stop before it got to marriage - that's something surely :P It's nicer than letting the marriage go ahead when his heart wasn't into it no?
Quote:
and not even Anya an ex-Vengeance demon deserved that.
This I don't understand sorry. So who does then? Who in your mind falls so low as to deserve such a thing?
www.cirqus.com
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Quote:
Originally posted by AgentRouka:
You're not reading me right.
I'm saying that it is irrelevant who Xander did it to. It could have been a human woman he did it to, as well.
It's his action I'm judging.
None of this implies in any way what I think of Anya herself.
Oh ok. Fair enough. His actions are human full with human frailties so I guess, yes they're not very mature, but then mature people are vulnerable to childish behavior too.
www.cirqus.com
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Originally posted by RugBug:
Quote:
The biggest problem I have with your post is that Anya is HUMAN and is no longer a killer. She hasn't been since she turned human...well, until Xander left her.
Well that kinda says it all really. Her weakness of character is evident. Much akin to Willow losing it and wanting to destroy the world because she lost Tera. Fact is we have to deal with loss, these two figures don't do to well when it comes to that.
Quote:
It would be interesting to contrast her to Angel, who feels guilty about his transgressions. Anya doesn't, and in fact, still takes pride in the work she did as a vengence demon. That would be her biggest failing as human, in my book. Does she deserve pain, though? No. But it is inevitable in life and I think Xander made the right decision by not marrying her. However, he should've figured things out earlier.
yeah he should have no doubt. However y'know if we did things right at all times we'd not be human..
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