Jerry Falwell dead at 73
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Sunday, May 20, 2007 16:55
VIEWED: 18266
PAGE 16 of 17
Khyron, this has been a long-standing discussion between myself and Finn over such issues as American intevention abroad, the use of torture, collateral damage, and abortion. Finn approves of killing people if they're "guilty" or if they get in the way of some bigger goal. Righteousness becomes an all-encompassing reason for doing all kinds of unrighteous things. I don't. For me, when you decide to take lives you had better be prepared to show that you saved more than you killed.
How does this relate to Falwell? Just on the observation that Finn's protective feelings are inconistent. He's protective about one hate-monger but not about another. I'm not calling for "God to take him home" or wishing for someone "to blow him away in the name of the Lord" or even saying that he is "an abomination"... unlike *ahem* some people I could point to. All I would like Finn to do is sit down and think. Really think, and think hard about how righteousness is a dangerous notion.
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Always look upstream.
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Quote:The quote that you took out of context was a part of post that I made comparing the US invasions with Soviet invasions to refute your claim that the US was worse then the Soviet Union. It was not necessarily justifying US military intervention, and it could not possibly have been construed in context, as an excuse for mass murdering millions. But you took from it only what you wanted to see in it, which was that Finn is a mass murdering son of a bitch. So it’s probably a waste of your time to go back and look at my posts, because you’re not going to come back with anything you don't want to see. But then again, it’s probably not your intent to come back with anything different. You and I have different points of view, particularly on military intervention. We aren’t going to see eye-to-eye on everything, but accusing me or attempting to paint me as condoning mass murder by taking quotes of mine out of context is pejorative and intolerant. And it’s not going to be conducive to any kind of discussion, but then it’s not discussion that you want, but rather to discredit a person you don’t like.
Originally posted by SignyM:
No, my point was that you have a very inconsistent view of what's "right" and what's "wrong", and which way it wobbles depends on whether or not you agree with a person's underlying "motivations". And yes, to the best of my recollection you HAVE defended invasions and other "interventions" which have clearly killed many innocent people which were not at all defensive. Time permits, I will go look them up and either find out I was wrong - in which case I owe you a huge apology for busting your chops over a mistaken perception- or I find out that I'm right.
And I see nothing inconsistent with my opinion on Falwell. Instead of searching for unrelated topics to smear me with, why don’t you find an example of a person whose death I found pleasure in purely for that person’s opinions? Probably because you can’t.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:No, sorry Finn. I should have posted a link. In was in relation to coup that we funded in Iraq in 1963. In part
The quote that you took out of context was a part of post that I made comparing the US invasions with Soviet invasions to refute your claim that the US was worse then the Soviet Union
Quote:When it become clear that the CIA "backed" this plot and that "backed" meant sending money, you said
The Iraqi leader made himself even more of a marked man when, in that same year, he began to help create the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC)... and in 1962 he created a national oil company to exploit the nation’s oil. In February 1963, Kassem told the French daily, Le Monde, that he had received a note from Washington -- "in terms scarcely veiled, calling upon me to change my attitude, under threat of sanctions against Iraq... All our trouble with the imperialists [the US and the UK] began the day we claimed our legitimate rights to Kuwait." A few days after Kassem’s remarks were published, he was overthrown in a coup and summarily executed; thousands of communists were killed. The State Department soon informed the press that it was pleased that the new regime would respect international agreements and was not interested in nationalizing the giant Iraq Petroleum Co., of which the US was a major owner. The new government, at least for the time being, also cooled its claim to Kuwait.
Quote:
I'm not intentionally causing his murder nor am I condoning it. I'm sending money to support my investment. The US does this a lot. We send money to many different places to support our investments. How these people choose to deal with their problem is up to them. So my point is that it is disingenuous to claim that the US/Britain assassinated someone, when actually all they did was support their interests in this part of the world.
www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=5209
I know we also went round and round on
torture -you support limited torture
abortion- which you are against because of the sanctity of human life
the death penalty-which you support because it's not innocent human life)
wartime collateral damage-in your view necessary to achieve higher goals such as "democracy" or "free trade" as well as defensive action
As far as Falwell is concerned- I already said that it was wrong to celebrate his death.
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Quote:Actually you don’t know half as much as you think you do, but none of this has to do with the topic. And Khyron is right. All you’re doing is pulling out as many unrelated complex topics as possible, taking quotes out of context, putting words in my mouth and distorting the issue to make it impossible for me to respond to anything while attempting to discredit me because you don't like what I have to say. None of which is related to the Falwell debate. This is not discussion; it's just Gestapo tactics. You're confusing the issue because you’re too small-minded to deal with the debate honestly.
Originally posted by SignyM:
I know we also went round and round on.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=5209
Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
So thanks for proving that I've been very consistent and for also demonstrating that you don't have friggin' clue as to what other people are saying. No matter than you must have spent about five hours hunting up that quote so you could take it out of context.
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Quote:And since I've already agreed that we shouldn't be celebrating Falwell's death, what more do you want me to say on the topic? This is one of those times when we agree. I just want the same consideration extended without prejudice to hate-mongering blowhards of all faiths. Including me.
None of which is related to the Falwell debate. This is not discussion; it's just Gestapo tactics. You're confusing the issue because you’re too small-minded to deal with the debate honestly.
Or explain to me why not.
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Always look upstream.
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BBDN- The difference between your post and mine is that you got my point totally bass-awkards.
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Quote:No what you want is to paint people who disagree with you as evil, and so you are the hate-mongering blowhard.
Originally posted by SignyM:
And since I've already agreed that we shouldn't be celebrating Falwell's death, what more do you want me to say on the topic? This is one of those times when we agree. I just want the same consideration extended without prejudice to hate-mongering blowhards of all faiths. Including me.
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Quote:If you want to discuss other topics with Finn, you should start a new thread. Because otherwise it comes across as I described in my last post.
Originally posted by SignyM:
And since I've already agreed that we shouldn't be celebrating Falwell's death, what more do you want me to say on the topic?
Questions are a burden to others. Answers are prison for oneself.
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Quote:Could you say this about the Ayatollah Khomeini, for example? All HE did was "talk". Never killed anyone.
Voicing pleasure at the death of another human being whose only crime is not agreeing with you or sharing your religious views comes across as pretty assholish to me. I’m sure that somewhere he has family that miss him. And whether I agreed with his political views or particular brand of Islam there were many that did and felt that his ministries were an important part of their lives.
Quote:No Finn, not evil. Inconistently moral
No what you want is to paint people who disagree with you as evil
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Always look upstream.
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