Firefly Sets Yet Another Record!
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Friday, February 23, 2007 02:07
VIEWED: 52370
PAGE 15 of 16
Quote:
Originally posted by pongluver:
You are not talking about technical quality, but that is a very important factor you are ignoring. Just left to art form, then yeah, none of that is likely to hurt sales of any kind. However the majority of the population/pirates give a crap about art. The technical quality is what makes them, THE MAJORITY, more likely NOT to buy the pirated material.
EXACTLY. They will NOT BUY pirated material. It will be LOANED to them by others, and IF they like it enough, they go out and BUY the real thing. I never said anyone would BUY pirated material, but some folks do.
Quote:
Not everything is black and white no, but stealing IS stealing.
And stealing is defined as taking something that is not yours. This is where a true difference of opinion begins, and I'm not here to debate what INFORMATION is or isn't ownable. What I am discussing is how "stolen" (to appease you...) material somehow causes a company to lose money when folks, who were not reached by the marketing (meaning they either never saw it, or they were not inspired enough by it) said company published, that would never have bought their product in the first place, legally, illegally or etched into rice...
Quote:
You never answered the question either. You just pulled a Citizen. Some rough arguments about the music industry 20 years ago and danced around the real question with some ideological, 15 year old, angst ridden crap.
I did. You just don't like the answer and you hang on ideology (such as "stealing is stealing"). And where the hell does ANGST come in?
Quote:
THE QUESTION:
How pirating a 20 gig movie file would help the dvd sales?
Your rant about cassette mix tapes does not come close to answering that. The few things you mentioned that actually pertained to the discussion have been argued already. So thats why i asked why it was revived without adding ANYTHING NEW. Try to read everything buddy. Let's not waste the adults time unless you actually have something to add.
Hey, if you've already read the thread, then why are you still here? I simply offered up one more explanation to someone who said they didn't get it. Perhaps you could add something useful yourself next time, like maybe some facts or proof that a ripped DVD won't or can't help the sales. You are arguing from the assumption that because it is "bad to steal" it can't help. Well, it is also wrong to kill (to some folks) and yet you sit here today, with the opportunity to voice your opinions because people have killed and have been killed to create the society that allows you to do it (unless of course you are from one of those countries that don't allow it, and now your days are numbered for using the freedom of speech, to spread your "information", that you don't have, and would equally see others not have that freedom).
BTW - I'll be copying everything you say here, and posting it elsewhere for others to see, because I've always wanted to pirate what is yours, and soon everyone who cares about what you have to say will have a FREE copy of it, until you stop them.
Dude, you really need to grow up and face reality. Not everyone in the 'verse is like you, thinks like you, nor wants to be like you. And that goes for me too. I realize this. All I am saying is pirated information does not cost a company sales for stuff people wouldn't have bought anyways because they were not aware of it. Sure it costs them a sale here or there, but then it is made up 2x, 5x, 10x, 100x over in some cases.
Ask yourself, how many people are still watching Firefly on the VHS (or DVD burns of VHS) episodes that sold on ebay a few years back? Right. And how many of them do you think ran right out and bought the DVD sets when they were released?
This isn't some tape of Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky having sex, this is art, and more importantly, storytelling, that was meant to be shared. It is not government secrets, or secret BigMac sauce, it is television that was broadcast freely over airwaves.
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sorry, dosed off a couple times reading that.
Reproducing copyright material is stealing, even if you don't make a profit. No mater what philosophical reason you do it. That's why it is illegal.
Also, how many times can you say the verse?
You kids are not in firefly. Stop pretending to be.
What i am typing is public domain, its not protected by copyrights. So feel free to post it wherever you want.
Its not just art. Its copyright property of Joss Whedon, Mutant Enemy, and 20th Century Fox / Universal. They are legal assets.
I see you arguing about cassette mixes, VHS rips, how a murderous society gave me the rights too answer your comments. You are just reaching now. Being a fan, does not entitle you to choose WHAT you pay for of that person, just because you are too cheap. When you don't pay, you are stealing. Plain and Simple. Even if you convince 400 people to buy that DVD it is still... stealing. What REAL fan would support the theft of the very "art" they are fans of. None. Take that any way you want.
At least citizen addressed the argument while he blatantly wanted to just argue.
You are still dodging everything.
You add less to the convo each time you post.
Get some sleep, don't miss school in the morning, and try again when you hit puberty.
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Quote:
Originally posted by pongluver:
sorry, dosed off a couple times reading that.
Reproducing copyright material is stealing, even if you don't make a profit. No mater what philosophical reason you do it. That's why it is illegal.
Also, how many times can you say the verse?
You kids are not in firefly. Stop pretending to be.
What i am typing is public domain, its not protected by copyrights. So feel free to post it wherever you want.
Its not just art. Its copyright property of Joss Whedon, Mutant Enemy, and 20th Century Fox / Universal. They are legal assets.
I see you arguing about cassette mixes, VHS rips, how a murderous society gave me the rights too answer your comments. You are just reaching now. Being a fan, does not entitle you to choose WHAT you pay for of that person, just because you are too cheap. When you don't pay, you are stealing. Plain and Simple. Even if you convince 400 people to buy that DVD it is still... stealing. What REAL fan would support the theft of the very "art" they are fans of. None. Take that any way you want.
At least citizen addressed the argument while he blatantly wanted to just argue.
You are still dodging everything.
You add less to the convo each time you post.
Get some sleep, don't miss school in the morning, and try again when you hit puberty.
Right. So your a crotchety OLD pacifist lawyer. Got it. And you yourself add nothing to this thread, except to continue to goad responses. So this, for what I am sure you will claim as "victory", will be my last in this thread.
First of all, I am most likely OLDER than you "pong" (yes, I played it in its original form).
Secondly, I can say 'Verse' all I want. As this "murderous society" has given me that right.
Lastly, you obviously AREN'T a Fan, Flan, Browncoat, or anything recognizable as such, as evidenced by your derogatory remarks to the same.
Hence, why this is my final comment to you. I will discuss/argue/debate with anyone else who wants to, but I don't come to this FAN site to be belittled by trolls like you. You can type all you want in response, but I will ignore you and give you your "victory over the heathen proginator of EVIL" you seek, as I have already given you more credence than you deserve. Why don't you find someplace where your philosophy is more widely accepted and stop getting your rocks off getting a rise out of others, who you disagree with, by exibiting your lack of knowledge and imposed morality?
Good day, Sir/Madam/Troll.
BWAH!
TCM
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You guys must be used to people backing down from bully tactics. Cause all it takes is a few discrediting remarks and you guys leave in a hurry. I hope you keep your word. Cause i don't think i can stomach anymore of your BORING ramblings.
I am not a fan huh? Yeah considering i actually watched the show in its original airing. I was a fan of Joss before firefly. I watched Buffy from day one. So insisting that a person should make a living off the art i support is now a sign you aren't a true fan. Ok. Sure.
Being a member of a little fan site, doesn't make you a fan. Nor does packing on a few Sig pics. Liking a show/Movie about pirates, doesn't give you the right to pirate the said show/movie.
You addressed me. So don't get mad when i respond.
Had you read the thread you responded to, you'd know i don't have a problem with piracy. Just the piracy of someone you are supposed to be a fan of. And the piracy of material that is not intended to widen the fan base of the verse, but to prohibit the need to buy something. Thats is what the HDDVD rip is. I have justified all my claims as much as anyone else.
But then again, reading as it appears, is not you strongest attribute.
I see that you call a troll anyone with a different belief than yourself. I am ok with that.
Enjoy Math class in the morning.
Pack a lunch.
Sleep tight.
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I dont mind piracy in general - it only annoys me when people start selling the stuff they pirate.
Me thinks that anyone who pirates Serenity would probably see how good the movie was and buy a copy. Thats what a friend of mine does. Pirates like 20 shows a year - whatchs them and buys the good ones so he can whatch them again.
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Pongluver:
So, if I HATED Firefly, you wouldn't mind if I pirated it? Or, because I do have lackluster feelings for Buffy and Angel, it's okay with you if download them all for free and share them (not for profit)? How does that fit in with "stealing is stealing," unless not all stealing is bad?
You watching the show in its original airing doesn't make you a fan, just like you liking other Joss works doesn't make you a fan. At least, it doesn't make you any more of a fan than myself or TCM. If a person like/loves the show, then they're a fan, and nobody can say for sure whether another person is or isn't a fan - it's subjective, based on how that individual feels and behaves.
And, you telling him to "enjoy math class in the morning" doesn't help your case at all.
P.S. (everyone)
Quote:
While we have an open policy concerning messages, please be civil when responding to others.
And don't bitch at me about being a goody-two shoes or anything - that's just what it says.
Rules and voting: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892
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Quote:
Originally posted by yinyang:
Pongluver:
So, if I HATED Firefly, you wouldn't mind if I pirated it? Or, because I do have lackluster feelings for Buffy and Angel, it's okay with you if download them all for free and share them (not for profit)? How does that fit in with "stealing is stealing," unless not all stealing is bad?
I have never said stealing is good.I just dont understand how you can put on one face (a fan) the support doing something that might hurt that.
Quote:
You watching the show in its original airing doesn't make you a fan, just like you liking other Joss works doesn't make you a fan. At least, it doesn't make you any more of a fan than myself or TCM. If a person like/loves the show, then they're a fan, and nobody can say for sure whether another person is or isn't a fan - it's subjective, based on how that individual feels and behaves.
i know, my point was, him being a member of a fansite doesn't make him one either.
Quote:
And, you telling him to "enjoy math class in the morning" doesn't help your case at all.
That wasn't meant to help my case, my case had been made. Nobody has STILL addressed how a 20 gig file which is NOT intended for casual viewing that would bring in new viewers, helps the verse. VHS and Cassette rips from 16-20 years ago have no correlation with DVD rips NOW.
Quote:
P.S. (everyone)Quote:
While we have an open policy concerning messages, please be civil when responding to others.
And don't bitch at me about being a goody-two shoes or anything - that's just what it says.
It MAY be followed more, if some people weren't so hostile too others.
Quote:
TCM's first comment to me:
"If ignorance is bliss, then you're the happiest person in the universe."
I have approached everyone, even those i disagree with in a respectful manner until they get personal. I refuse to be bullied around because some people apparently don't have to follow the rules. Other people i got into "heated" arguments with got quite rude and personal more times than with just me, and as i've browsed other articles i see its a common practice for them.
btw
i missed this:
Quote:
Originally posted by zab0tage:
At the end of the day arguing about weather it helps or hinders Joss, Universal or Fox, or any other contributer is pointless, for me, it comes down having morals. If you do happen to download the show and enjoy it, get off your coke drinking, fast food eating ass and buy it. Nothing anyone says or moans about on these boards is gonna make a yellow snows worth of difference to either the Bit-Torrent sites or the powers that be behind the tv/movie making business.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, well put.
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This discussion has gone on too long already.
I rejoice that the DRM is broken and it's shiny that it was Serenity.
****
About the issue of Pirating Serenity's HD DVD.
Anything above 500MB I won't download! (Ok I'm poor!)
I do understand PONG's point. If we buy Legal DVDs we are INDEED helping Joss. Or helping Joss more.
I also do understand Citizen and others (sorry can't remember 
) point. That having serenity(includes HD DVD) in P2P will help cover a larger ground of people that will be exposed to the movie and the possiblity that they will buy the legal copy of it.
HERE'S MY TAKE ON THE ISSUE:
@PONG
I don't think you are defending the piracy issue. I think you are not anti-piracy. I know you want what's best for the verse.
I agree that buying the legal copies will help Joss, and it will help more. More legal copies of BDM sold, more help for Joss. And it is a more positive promotion of the movie.
This is a 100% WIN SITUATION. I hope I got your point across?
Btw, It was a shock when you said that someone's argument was childish. Some people will not take that easily you know. It could come across as a personal attack.
@CITIZEN and THE GUYZ/GALZ
I think having HD DVD of Serenity cracked was really cool and having it on a P2P is great. Since more people will have access to it. Cover more grounds and recruit more browncoats, I like the idea.
I understand what you are trying to point out that it will not harm the movie or the sales of the DVD if we download it. I do not see immediate harm to it.
Although this indeeds promote the movie, this is also a risk... There is a risk that they would buy the legal copy or they wouldn't. But that is the risk that P2P softwares are offering to those who want to try before they buy. I'd like to try before buying.
<<<----------->>>
The point that P2P harms or benefits the BDM, I cannot say. But buying legal copies will definitely benefit Joss and the BDH and the studio without risk.
If they don't like movie then they discard it, then the movie gains nothing. If they like the movie and buys the copy, then we gain something. If they like the movie but don't buy it, then do you think this is a loss? is it a gain or a just the black or a loss?
Personally, I don't know.
If we take the risk of DLing the movie, and maybe possibly get more browncoats and more legal copies sold, then GOOD! or should I say SHINY!
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Its funny, i was about to come here and clear up my argument and you helped. I totally see everyone else's arguments.
My whole opinion before i felt it was put on trial was this. If someone believes piracy hurts dvd sales, then from a moral standpoint they cannot support pirating something they are a fan of. That would be supporting something that HURTS what they are a fan of.
I am NOT trying to convert anyone to believe piracy hurts dvd sales. I personally believe it does. That was my reasoning for not supporting the HD-DVD rip. I don't believe even with the "piracy can broaden a fan-base argument", that the HD-DVD rip falls into that. However, that is MY personal opinion. I was not trying to force it on anyone, nor was i trying to say the opposite was wrong.
From my standpoint, i believe i just couldn't support something that i thought might hurt the Jossverse. Automatically after putting that, people came out demanding i prove something. That wasn't the point. I disagreed with the HD rip, i just gave a reason WHY. It wasn't some "MATTER OF FACT" statement saying everyone was wrong and i was right. It was just MY opinion. Naturally, when confronted about it in a way they feel is hostile, anybody will get defensive. Then what ensued happened, and that was unfortunate.
If i believed that piracy didn't hurt DVD sales, i wouldn't have a problem with pirating Joss' work. Hell i believe it does and im fine with piracy in general now. As a fan, and this is ME PERSONALLY, and not to be taken as a shot to anyone else, i can't bring myself to pirate something i call myself a REAL FAN of. My only point was to say to those on the opposite side of the discussion, hypothetically, if something were one day reported that was able to convince you piracy hurt DVD sales, would you still pirate stuff you were a fan of? If you believed it would hurt it? If your a real fan, i don't see how you could. I was never trying to say anyone here WASN'T a real fan. I was just talking from MY perspective. I believe it will. I was just voicing MY opinion. I thought that was what these were for. I was not deliberately trying to bash another opinion. When you feel attacked, as i did, and as i have seen others feel on multiple threads here. I got defensive and acted the way i thought was accordingly. However i NEVER wanted to question anyones loyalty to the verse, nor insult anyone.
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Open mind = understanding what you hate
Yet to see the movie industry get charged for stealing, they produce and we do or don’t buy. First copy I had to watch was recorded from TV which was, and I believe in most countries is still, an illegal product. Since the option to purchase became available I have bought copies for as many friends and family as possible.
1. Most people who got a pirated copy have the original, those that don’t would never have bought it anyway or are not in a position where they can.
2. How many out there record on VHS or DVD from TV? Last time I checked, this was illegal.
3. How many of you work for a company who uses legal phone 'hold' music (i.e., not radio stations or copy write protected music which is illegal)?
4. How many companies produce DVD players with AVI (or DivX) playback? I notice VUE even produce one which can now take USB input..... Love those new gadgets!
5. How many people have bought a movie or game and been disappointed enough to try and return the product.
6. How many believe that having a pirated copy negates the need to buy one, that the industry rips us blind so we are getting some back? You are wrong, stupid, and a blight on society. You contribute nothing to the great work these actors achieved and the joy we re-live every time an episode is played before our eyes. You rip off the industry which, having to make its money somewhere, in turn penalises the actors by keeping them underpaid and out of work.
7. Equal and opposite (re)actions. Every time money is lost due to piracy, it is made elsewhere. Programming Anti-piracy software, New DVD players, along with many other enterprises pay and support workers (and which corporations back these).
Home Theatre is the way of the future and the movie industry needs to recognise this trend and change with it not fight against it. Piracy disgusts me but I keep an open mind and can see its a necessary evil to force long over due change.
He who bends himself a joy,
Does the winged life destroy.
But he who kisses joy as it flies,
Lives in eternity’s sunrise
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