Firefly Sets Yet Another Record!

POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Friday, February 23, 2007 02:07
VIEWED: 52370
PAGE 12 of 16

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Originally posted by Razza:
Pong:

Finally! Some facts I can look at! I'll do that and get back to you this week some time.

BTW, Kaneman's assertions support my premise IMHO. He stated that he would never have bought the movies in the first place. How is that a loss to the movie industry? He never would have spent his money on their product in the first place. Thus, they never lost any money from his downloading activities, except for the 25% he says he might have rented. I suspect the studies you cite use the same fuzzy logic. Namely that the industry lost sales they never would have made in the first place. I'll look them over and get back to you when I can. Thanks for posting them!

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I would think you would need some time to try and find a way to discard 3 RENOWNED journalistic sources.

How is that a loss? Because the only way you can tell if he wouldn't have bought them is if they weren't available. You argument is that piracy helps DVD sales. In the case of Kaneman, it proves it doesn't. He takes credit for any sales on behalf of his family and friends. For all we know they saw a commercial or read a review. Does it necessarily hurt the sales? We don't know, cause while he believes he would never have bought them, even he cant be certain unless there was a control environment without the piracy aspect. So it supports nothing for you, and leaves my argument unanswered. Nice try at spinning it though.

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Originally posted by pongluver:
This article from the BBC shows JUST the UK video industry took a loss of 45 million pounds in 2003 alone.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/film/3692999.stm

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The assertion of a loss of £45 million seems to be coming simply from the number of people who are downloading, so is not a true figure because those people could very well end up buying those films.

Though there are a few interesting little quotes from that article, perhaps you missed them?

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The BVA also reported a 61% increase in DVD sales in 2003
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Total sales across the video industry rose from £2.05bn in 2002 to £2.42bn last year.

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Sales rose by £370 Million, funny I can't seem to find that £45Million loss anywhere in that.

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Wanna go back to music? This shows the 11% drop in sales from the music industry. Read the article and you find that as a 1.6 billion dollar loss, IN JUST THE FIRST HALF of 2002.
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2554

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Hmm, funny because for the same period I remember seeing the music industries profits go up, being at the time quite interested in the reality of the situation with Napster and the like as I was completing a degree in Computer Science. Interestingly I found this:

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the record industry cut their inventory (and artist investment) by 25 percent and sales only dropped 4.1 percent, even though the economy is at rock bottom.

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http://www.azoz.com/music/features/0008.html

That sounds like they're actually doing pretty good? Don't we call it propaganda when we take facts and give a one sided story to blame a scapegoat and/or assert our own ends? (Note: I'm not saying you're engaging in propaganda, more that the RIAA is).

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Your childish notions have been squashed. You continue to show nothing worth discussion. Don't argue facts unless you actually research for it.

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Well that's exactly what I've done here.

Also is this how one takes the moral high ground? Implying your opponent is childish, hasn't got anything to say worth listening to? You've been protesting heavily that your opponents are attacking you, your protestations would hold more weight if you held your temper.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Originally posted by pongluver:
Wanna go back to music? This shows the 11% drop in sales from the music industry. Read the article and you find that as a 1.6 billion dollar loss, IN JUST THE FIRST HALF of 2002.
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=2554

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Which of course has nothing to do with September 11th, 2001, does it?


Rules: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892
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NO, the first half ends in June. 9/11 had nothing to do with it.

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Hmm, funny because for the same period I remember seeing the music industries profits go up, being at the time quite interested in the reality of the situation with Napster and the like as I was completing a degree in Computer Science. Interestingly I found this:

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You "remember" seeing profits go up? Ok, because YOU remember differently, the Ivy League report must be wrong.

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Sales rose by £370 Million, funny I can't seem to find that £45Million loss anywhere in that.

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Yeah, and the worldwide spree of arrests and crackdowns for internet piracy in 2003/2004 couldn't possibly be to blame for the rise.


You are right about the propaganda however. It is thick on both sides of this argument. Neither side is free of it. Every report from both side seem to carry a degree of bias. Which is why i didn't post to begin with. Fact is, there is no resolution. This debate is like the War On Terror or The War On Drugs. Its an argument that has no right answer. No Finality.

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Also is this how one takes the moral high ground? Implying your opponent is childish, hasn't got anything to say worth listening to? You've been protesting heavily that your opponents are attacking you, your protestations would hold more weight if you held your temper.

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I held my temper. I said nothing out of line. Nor did i claim to TAKE the moral high ground. Also, i am not considering him my opponent.


I simply stated to begin with, i am against pirating Joss' work for fear it can, IN ANY WAY bring harm to him in terms of his relationship with Hollywood. If that disenfranchises me than so be it. There are no unquestionable facts to support either argument (primarily due to the non-publication of complete Dvd sales figures).


However you are right, this debate has turned way to personal on both sides. This is unfortunate and unwarranted. We are all fans of the same verse and for me to question another fans loyalty was perhaps wrong. I just feel intensely strong about preserving joss's works now and in the future. I perceive anything that can possibly hinder that as a bad thing. I still don't feel a 20 gig file is for recreational viewing and promotion. The average computer HD for people that i know is 60-80 gigs. The average person wont use 1/4-1/3 of their HD space for a movie they might hate. Which begs my question, What is this really for? Promotion, or a cheap alternative to actually BUYING the dvd.

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Originally posted by pongluver:
NO, the first half ends in June. 9/11 had nothing to do with it.

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Of course not - pirating can be the only reason why for the first half of 2002, profits were down.


Rules: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892
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Originally posted by yinyang:

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Originally posted by pongluver:
NO, the first half ends in June. 9/11 had nothing to do with it.


Of course not - pirating can be the only reason why for the first half of 2002, profits were down.

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I didn't say that, you asked about 9-11. And the answer was NO. We don't know 100% for sure what altered profits. Hense my "no hard proof on either side" stuff above. We only know 9-11 wasn't to blame. First half ended MONTHS before the attacks. Sorry.

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