Firefly Sets Yet Another Record!
POSTED BY: 6ixStringJack
UPDATED: Friday, February 23, 2007 02:07
VIEWED: 52370
PAGE 13 of 16
Quote:Yes I remember, quite clearly, that the profits have increased year after year until at least 2004. This assertion is called an Appeal to Authority and is a logical fallacy. Indeed your Ivy League source says nothing of the sort, and if it did, it would be wrong. And indeed if you notice the figures on the link I provided it certainly does suggest that profits were on an upward, not downward trend.
Originally posted by pongluver:
You "remember" seeing profits go up? Ok, because YOU remember differently, the Ivy League report must be wrong.
Quote:Got data to back that up? I merely showed that rather than taking a loss the industries profits increased.
Yeah, and the worldwide spree of arrests and crackdowns for internet piracy in 2003/2004 couldn't possibly be to blame for the rise.
Surely if the arrests and crackdowns had allowed for an increase in profits they would have prevented the tripling of pirate downloads and this actually helps to refute the £45m loss figure, no?
Quote:I never said both sides didn't, I said the specific assertion was most likely an example of propaganda.
You are right about the propaganda however. It is thick on both sides of this argument. Neither side is free of it. Every report from both side seem to carry a degree of bias. Which is why i didn't post to begin with. Fact is, there is no resolution. This debate is like the War On Terror or The War On Drugs. Its an argument that has no right answer. No Finality.
Quote:Really, you're tone sounded rather aggressive, would it be in-line for me to dismiss anything you had to say as 'childish'? Whether you consider Razz your opponent or not is irrelevant, you are on opposite sides of an argument, that makes him your opponent. That is the only context within which I meant.
I held my temper. I said nothing out of line. Nor did i claim to TAKE the moral high ground. Also, i am not considering him my opponent.
Quote:I couldn't agree more.
However you are right, this debate has turned way to personal on both sides. This is unfortunate and unwarranted.
Quote:But they would pay £15? I think that's something to think about.
I still don't feel a 20 gig file is for recreational viewing and promotion. The average computer HD for people that i know is 60-80 gigs. The average person wont use 1/4-1/3 of their HD space for a movie they might hate. Which begs my question, What is this really for?
Quote:Because there is a great deal of data that indicates that peer to peer downloads actually increase, rather than decrease, sales on the whole.
So please. Explain it to me. How does it help?
This is part of the discussion you've been having with Razza.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Because there is a great deal of data that indicates that peer to peer downloads actually increase, rather than decrease, sales on the whole.
This is part of the discussion you've been having with Razza.
I'm not asking about P2P, i'm specifically asking about THIS HD-DVD rip. Everyone keeps trying to vague it up. And this data you speak of has the same fractured points of fact as you pointed out in my data. We aren't referring to P2P as a whole. It is this particular rip.
Quote:
But they would pay £15? I think that's something to think about.
If not given the choice to steal it, i believe so, yes. That's nothing in terms of price.
Quote:
Really, you're tone sounded rather aggressive, would it be in-line for me to dismiss anything you had to say as 'childish'? Whether you consider Razz your opponent or not is irrelevant, you are on opposite sides of an argument, that makes him your opponent. That is the only context within which I meant.
I only meant my tone was harsher than intended. In that regard i didn't view him as an opponent. We aren't really ON different sides. I believe we both feel our side is in the best interest of the verse.
However i was accused of putting things in Black and White, yet several times i have compromised in the argument and conceded points, first with the possibility that piracy brings in new fans, AND can marginally increase sales POTENTIALLY. Yet, on the other side of the argument there is no give, its absolute. You are all acting as if i am close minded, yet wont even entertain the possibility piracy might hurt dvd sales. And if that was someday proven, would you still support the piracy of his work?
Quote:
You like pirating, except with works you support? So, doesn't that make all pirating wrong? Somebody out there likes something that everybody's pirating; but, as long as it's not works you like, it's not your problem? That seems to be the feeling I'm getting.
Actually, yes. Although you are twisting it a bit. I don't like stealing the work of someone i like with no intent to enrich the fan base. I have said i dislike it personally but can deal with normal copies of FF etc.. on the torrent sites etc...
However i am against the pirating of something that has no intention of doing that. Frankly, its irritating having to write the same thing over and over.
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Quote:What on Earth are you talking about? Yes we are talking about P2P, that's the delivery system FOR THIS RIP. If P2P can be shown to increase sales on the whole then it is reasonable to assert that it is likely to do the same for Serenity. It almost seems like you just want to remove any data that doesn't support your hypothesis, because whatever the specific case the overall P2P issue is at the very heart of it.
Originally posted by pongluver:
I'm not asking about P2P, i'm specifically asking about THIS HD-DVD rip. Everyone keeps trying to vague it up.
...
We aren't referring to P2P as a whole. It is this particular rip.
Quote:Did you read it? I'm talking specifically of the figures, numbers, that clearly show that the industries income dropped by less than its outlay, ergo profits increased, profits being what you make over and above what you spend.
And this data you speak of has the same fractured points of fact as you pointed out in my data.
What, specifically, is 'fractured' about that?
Quote:People aren't willing to use up a seizable portion of their HDD which they can get back as and when they decide they like it and buy it or decide they don't like it and delete it, but are ready to spend money they can't get back if they find they don't like it? I'm sorry but £15 is rather more than I'm willing to spend on something I might not want.
If not given the choice to steal it, i believe so, yes. That's nothing in terms of price.
Quote:That doesn't mean you are not opponents on opposite sides of an argument. Socialists and Capitalists think they're systems are in the best interests of the state, doesn't mean they're not rivals.
In that regard i didn't view him as an opponent. We aren't really ON different sides. I believe we both feel our side is in the best interest of the verse.
Quote:So?
Yet, on the other side of the argument there is no give, its absolute.
Quote:This is a discussion, it is your job to produce a compelling argument, not to chastise us for not finding your argument compelling. I also think that any inference of 'acting like you are close minded' is coming entirely from you.
You are all acting as if i am close minded, yet wont even entertain the possibility piracy might hurt dvd sales. And if that was someday proven, would you still support the piracy of his work?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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You obviously have no intent to discuss the issue. You are now just trying to incite a harsh comment.
You say did i read the figures? Yes. However they would be incomplete since complete sales figures for dvd's ARE NOT RELEASED. So its just bias estimates. Three times now i have tried to turn the discussion positive. You continue to sidestep my simple questions.
Quote:
I'm sorry but £15 is rather more than I'm willing to spend on something I might not want.
In America, thats nothing. People buy dvd's for that all the time. It is most common. And lets face it, in terms of dvd sales, America is far more important due to our gluttony. You can easily buy the dvd and re-gift it if you hate it, rather than risk a virus downloading an unknown file.
Quote:
This is a discussion, it is your job to produce a compelling argument, not to chastise us for not finding your argument compelling. I also think that any inference of 'acting like you are close minded' is coming entirely from you.
completely ignoring half of what people are typing and irking out conclusions on vague interpretations is not a discussion.
It occurs to me you don't really want to discuss the issue, you just want to argue with someone.
I'm not here to WIN and argument. I am here to understand why its necessary and how its good to pirate the HD-DVD copy. You state, that it helps dvd sales. There are no solid facts to support that. True, there are none to the contrary. I understand that you believe it does. But there is no proof. If you a fan, what do you gain in risking it? You save 13 bucks.
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"It occurs to me you don't really want to discuss the issue, you just want to argue with someone."
What took you so long to figure that out Pongluver?
Pongluver meet Citz........Enjoy, and remember to wash your hands when finished...Citz has a way of making people feel dirty after a "discussion".
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
"It occurs to me you don't really want to discuss the issue, you just want to argue with someone."
What took you so long to figure that out Pongluver?
Pongluver meet Citz........Enjoy, and remember to wash your hands when finished...Citz has a way of making people feel dirty after a "discussion".
hehehe
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Quote:Please, I have been as polite as possible to you. As in fact has Razza, I detected none of the accusations you made against him, though I did see many comments from you calling Razza 'childish', 'stupid' and 'not a true fan'. These seem not just rather childish, but also rather trollish, I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt, but given the fact that you and one of the well known trolls of this board have just simply chosen to attack me personally I can only assume that my decision was an error.
Originally posted by pongluver:
You obviously have no intent to discuss the issue. You are now just trying to incite a harsh comment.
In fact given your continued baseless accusations and protestations the only conclusion that can be drawn is that you are indeed completely uninterested in any discussion whatsoever.
Quote:Given your continued personal attacks and baseless accusations of same on any who disagree with you, you're apparent allegiance to a well known troll of these boards, and the fact that you've been here for only 5 days and have, in that time, apparently only interacted in this thread I am forced to conclude that you are indeed not here to WIN an argument, you are here to TROLL it.
I'm not here to WIN and argument.
I will not respond to you further, and urge other posters:
Please don't feed the trolls.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Thanks Citizen!
I hadn't noticed that he has only been a member of the site for 5 days and has only posted in this discussion. I have to agree with your assessment of him, he isn't interested in a discussion, only insulting those who disagree with him. I looked over my posts and his again, and the only one of us who has engaged in personal attacks is him.
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It quickly gets old when the only person whose actually being personal and insulting is screaming about percieved slights.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
I hadn't noticed that he has only been a member of the site for 5 days and has only posted in this discussion. I have to agree with your assessment of him, he isn't interested in a discussion, only insulting those who disagree with him. I looked over my posts and his again, and the only one of us who has engaged in personal attacks is him.
OK, so calling me dense, misguided, and saying i can only see things in black and white isn't personal attacks? Ok.
Anything i "called" you referred to a particular comment, i always addressed particular comments as childish, etc... YOU decided to address ME.
Quote:
Given your continued personal attacks and baseless accusations of same on any who disagree with you, you're apparent allegiance to a well known troll of these boards, and the fact that you've been here for only 5 days and have, in that time, apparently only interacted in this thread I am forced to conclude that you are indeed not here to WIN an argument, you are here to TROLL it.
I will not respond to you further, and urge other posters:
Please don't feed the trolls.
Just because this is the only topic i have posted in, that means i do not want to discuss it? Sure, i have no need to spam other threads when i have nothing to say in it. What kind of reasoning is that? It's just as bias and unfounded as your "research" to support your argument. I don't know what allegiance you speak of, but its nice how you are so quick to point out others insulting people, yet you just insulted me and some other person and see no problem in it. All because i disagree with you. Quite the fascist approach.
You both are overtly hypocritical. You insult, yet act victimized against retaliation. You demand more detailed facts, yet provide none on your own. You call me out for having a "Black and White" viewpoint, yet i am the only one who has shown the ability for compromise. Looking back over the other posts, you just want to attack ANYONE who disagrees with you on the subject.
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