Real World Event Discussions
John Edwards announces his run for Office
POSTED BY: piratejenny
UPDATED: Monday, January 8, 2007 01:17
VIEWED: 6407
PAGE 7 of 10
Friday, January 5, 2007 2:00 PM
Quote:You obviously missed the sarcasm. I don't think someone who has no problem with people dying after they are born as morally superior. Nor do I find that people who have to make a big thing of their own moral superiority over anyone who doesn't share their opinions tend to be particularly 'morally superior' in any way.
Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Well, I certainly agree with you on the moral high ground part, considering the callous disregard you’ve displayed for a human embryo.
Quote:Looking in the bin at an IVF clinic is a good start. We don't need to decide anything, they're already being thrown away, use those embryos.
The problem I have is in how we decide what constitutes an “embryo that is to be thrown away,”
Quote:Neither should people who think a single cell that may, some day possibly be a baby, is more important than a living breathing human being.
I don’t think people who have no compassion for the conception of human life or it’s prenatal byproduct are really in a moral position to make that decision.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Friday, January 5, 2007 2:13 PM
Quote:
You asked for a quote where Bush was exaggerating or lying, I provided one, you can't handle the fact you are wrong, I get that.
Nope, that's not what I asked for at all. Try learning how to read before you respond. Sure, all politicians stretch the truth and bend the facts, but to the degree that Edwards did ,and the amount of shameless pandering he added...it's the worst I've ever seen by a legitimate national candidate. All you did was give a quote where Bush said the about the same thing that dozens of other politicians have said, both Dem and GOP, and many even before Bush was in office. Pretty lame attempt on your part.
And no, I didn't lie. Sorry. You keep repeating this nonsenses like a 5 yr old because that's all you have. But inside, you know I'm right.
I know the difference, Bush was lying, Edwards may very well have been wrong. But because you are the biggest partisan it has ever been my misfortune to meet you'll never admit it. As someone else said, you'd have no problem with Bush lying while clubbing baby seals, as long as it was Bush doing it.
Quote:No others have said what Edwards has said. None of used a topic and so completely pandered to those looking for hope and been given nothing but empty lies and false hopes. I can give you dozens of quotes which match what Bush said per Iraq. I challenge you to do the same per Edwards.
Also you let Bush off the hook because 'other people said it too'. Since other people besides John Edwards have said that ESC research will make people walk again it is merely your partisanship, dirty debating tactics, double standards and idiocy that allows you to apply lopsided standards.
To sum up your petty reply, all you've done is claim I'm lying when you can't back up YOUR claims or when you can't offer up a logical rebuttle. Whether you know nothing of our political system or not is irrelevent. Edward's quote is the issue, and not one that I had to do any twisting what so ever. His quote alone is far better than I could ever craft if I wanted to make him look bad.
Until you prove that I'm wrong on an issue, I don't care how many trolls come along and take your side. Being right doesn't always mean standing with the sheep. I'm fine w/ that here, in fact, I'm proud of it.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Friday, January 5, 2007 2:18 PM
Quote:That’s my understanding as well. Adult stem cells already seem to be achieving the high-hoped hypothetical promises of embryonic stem cells.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
The best hope for medical advances which may yield benfitial to those suffering from similar type situations as your family member are adult stem cell research. All indications are that stem cells from the patient themselves will provide the best treatment/ cure.
“June 24, 2004 -- An experimental surgery using stem cells from adult organs is showing promise in helping patients paralyzed with spinal cord injuries.
Two patients paralyzed in automobile accidents in 2001 say the experimental procedure has helped them gain use of muscles they were told by doctors would never function again. Both say they are now able to walk with the use of leg braces.”
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/89/100250.htm
Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.
Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.
-- Cicero
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Friday, January 5, 2007 3:21 PM
Quote:That's exactly what you asked for, a quote to back up what I had said, lying about that now won't help you. If I were Rumsfield I'd say "I know you know I know you know, so don't tell me I don't know you know you don't know, you know".
Originally posted by PirateRaptor:
Nope, that's not what I asked for at all. Try learning how to read before you respond.
Try remembering what actually happened before replying. Also learn some basic spelling before taking 'issie'[[]sic[]] with other peoples literacy.
Least I actually read your posts rather than skim them for trolling material I mean.
Quote:Of course it is, he's a democrat and you are incapable of impartially evaluating anything, we've been over this already.
it's the worst I've ever seen by a legitimate national candidate.
Suffice to say John Edwards quote bears no relation to Bush's, it is, after all, nowhere near as bad.
Quote:Not really, but even if this was so it would be nowhere near as lame as your 'point' and debating skills, which are, and lets be fair to you, non-existent.
Pretty lame attempt on your part.
Quote:Yeah ya did, you know you did, inside, just a shame you can't admit it.
And no, I didn't lie. Sorry.
Quote:Can't you come up with a come back of your own? Why do you keep using mine? Are you slow or something?
You keep repeating this nonsenses like a 5 yr old because that's all you have. But inside, you know I'm right.
Inside I know you're far too fanatical and stupid to evaluate anything yourself or entertain the idea you may be wrong. Which is why you so often are.
Quote:Well if I were you I'd say something like:
No others have said what Edwards has said. None of used a topic and so completely pandered to those looking for hope and been given nothing but empty lies and false hopes. I can give you dozens of quotes which match what Bush said per Iraq. I challenge you to do the same per Edwards.
You've never seen anything like what Bush said, "or you'd have offered it up as evidence."
But since I'm thankfully not you:
You challenge me to say I can come up dozens of quotes? Because that's easy, or do you challenge me to actually come up with them? I assume the latter because you have a proven track record of holding everyone else to higher standards than yourself, probably because you could never hope to live up to them.
I'll go one step better and give lists of articles:
Embryonic Stem Cell Research
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/stem-cell-research/
Ask a Geneticist
http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=163
There's lots there, just throw an inane personal insult my way if you want some more.
Quote:I've shown quite conclusively you were lying, your childish inability to admit it is not my problem. I have also backed up my claims, you however have not backed up yours, nor even tried, preferring to make childish personal insults and national slights than a logical reasoned argument. Though that is pretty much your MO so I wasn't expecting much else.
To sum up your petty reply, all you've done is claim I'm lying when you can't back up YOUR claims or when you can't offer up a logical rebuttle.
At best your entire sentence is an exercise in gross hypocrisy, it's also a shame you can't come up with your own material, not that I expect you are capable.
Quote:Except you bought it up, so you are just shouting at yourself, but whatever.
Whether you know nothing of our political system or not is irrelevent.
Quote:I think this was my line, once again, get your own material.
Edward's quote is the issue, and not one that I had to do any twisting what so ever.
Quote:Sums up my feelings whenever you post quite succinctly.
His quote alone is far better than I could ever craft if I wanted to make him look bad.
Quote:Already done, as I keep saying becau
Until you prove that I'm wrong on an issue, I don't care how many trolls come along and take your side.
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Friday, January 5, 2007 6:49 PM
Citizen:
I hope you share equal contempt for these politicians who:
Quote:
Originally posted by Citizen:
...brought the US and other into war with Iraq, a war that has ended tens, hundreds of thousands of lives....
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | http://web.archive.org/web/20040204225854/www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/
speeches/spc_2003_0123.html
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 | http://web.archive.org/web/20040206224935/johnkerry.com/pressroom/spee
ches/spc_2002_1009.html
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/US/9802/04/us.un.iraq/
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/18/iraq.political.analysis/
"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/01/iraq/
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/17/wh.critics/
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/4136328.htm
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/gore_text092
302.html
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/gore_text092
302.html
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 http://www.senate.gov/~rockefeller/news/2002/flrstmt0102002.html
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capabilit
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Friday, January 5, 2007 7:14 PM
Quote:Not exactly the same thing, he's not saying he has got weapons of mass destruction, but that he's trying to get them. Different sentiment.
Originally posted by Razza:
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003 | http://web.archive.org/web/20040204225854/www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/
speeches/spc_2003_0123.html
Quote:Not so great, but I hardly think saying "I believe" is in the same league as "there is no doubt".
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002 | http://web.archive.org/web/20040206224935/johnkerry.com/pressroom/spee
ches/spc_2002_1009.html
Quote:Hows saying "we want to stop Saddam getting WMDs" the same as saying "Saddam definatly has WMD"?
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
- President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/US/9802/04/us.un.iraq/
Quote:Program rather than weapons themselves, not the same thing but possibly an exaggeration.
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
- President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 | http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/02/18/iraq.political.analysis/
Quote:Isn't she talking about the period prior to the first Gulf War where he did have and use chemical weapons?
"We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction."
- Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/9802/01/iraq/
Quote:At best poorly worded, at worse a lie by implication.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm
Quote:Still programs than weapons themselves, but most likely an exaggeration.
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton.
- (D) Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, others, Oct. 9, 1998
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/07/17/wh.critics/
Quote:I can't defend that. If there was that level of evidence for that certainty we'd have found something by now.
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
http://www.miami.com/mld/miami/4136328.htm
Quote:Pure unmitigated Bullshit.
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/transcripts/gore_text092
302.html
Quote:
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and weNOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Friday, January 5, 2007 9:45 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:At best poorly worded, at worse a lie by implication.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm
Saddam did use WMD, in the form of chemical weapons, at least ten times starting in 1983. See the chart about a third of the way down this report.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm#05
"Keep the Shiny side up"
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Friday, January 5, 2007 9:50 PM
Quote:I was more thinking of the time it was made, yes he used chemical weapons from '83. I wasn't questioning that. The lie by implication is "he's used them in the past and he will use them again". I have no doubt he would, if he had them.
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:At best poorly worded, at worse a lie by implication.
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
- Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
http://www.usatoday.com/news/index/iraq/iraq172.htm
Saddam did use WMD, in the form of chemical weapons, at least ten times starting in 1983. See the chart about a third of the way down this report.
https://www.cia.gov/cia/reports/iraq_wmd/Iraq_Oct_2002.htm#05
"Keep the Shiny side up"
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Friday, January 5, 2007 9:52 PM
Razza,
Most (if not all) of those quotes have been thoroughly debunked as out of context.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp
------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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Friday, January 5, 2007 10:07 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
That's bullshit, and you know it! You're intentionally twisting MY words and then saying I'm the one who twisted Edward's words! Unfuckingbelievable! I never claimed THEY said anyone would 'magically' walk, but Edwards DID promise that which he knew he could not offer. THEY were the ones who were pandering here, you fucking moron, NOT ME!!
Aaaaaaannnnnnddd with this snap I believe we've come full circle. Temper, temper. You're like a 5-year old who can't figure out why he lost an argument with his parents on whether or not to buy a puppy.
Edwards wanted to clear paths for that research. He wanted to see people cured. He gave an inspirational speech. You state (in this post, again) that he was being cynical and not idealistic. That he was pandering, not making a real promise. There's your twist. Because of that, I called you a partisan hack, and took you to the woodshed in every post.
If the reason you got your panties in a wad was because Citi thought I knew more than you, get over it. I never said I did, and don't care if I do or don't. On the other hand, your arguing skills?
------------------------------------------
"A revolution without dancing is no revolution at all." - V
Anyone wanting to continue a discussion off board is welcome to email me - check bio for details.
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