Drug war
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 23:52
VIEWED: 6976
PAGE 4 of 8
Quote:Obviously nothing aproaching the strength of what your on if you think prohibition was better, they recinded that for very good reasons you know. I think I could make a fairly good case for many of your present day social problems stemming from your 1920's flirtation with prohibition. You really think prohibition was better? Give ME a break.
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Citizen, what are you on?
You really think that the commercialization of beer and cigarettes has reduced their consumption? Give me a break.
There's no way someone who was looking at the evidence objectively could think that.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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I think the big, big problem here is that our society looks at life as a souless mechanism. We look at ourselves as souless machanisms. Objects. If it breaks down, ya fix it. If it's going too slow, you add some chemicals to speed it up. If it's getting too big, you cut off its food supply. If the problem gets overwhelming, lock it away or destroy it outright. Ad infinitum.
You know, like the diet industry. All this quackery and damaging garbage because we only want to see mechanisms, the simpler the better. "Hmmmm, I must be fat because I put stuff in my body and it stays there. So if I put less stuff inside this thing it will get smaller."
And when I say "souless" you gotta know I don't mean everybody's gotta go to church. Church can be just as souless as watching the WWF. Though it's true, most churchgoers I've met up with don't see themselves as souless mechanisms so much as they see themselves as li'l factories of evil that need constant monitoring and reclamation. To them, the solution isn't getting to know yourself better and become a better person; the solution is to go to church, read the Bible. Still having a problem? Go to more church and read more Bible. They've just found another mechanistic solution, another fix.
The soul I'm talking about, is the part of us that is in no need of reclamation. The soul I'm talking about sees no greater good than to know itself and see itself reflected in all others. That soul, when we are conscious of it and nurture a co-creative realationship with it--'cause, you know, when we commune with our souls, the soul gives us ideas--that soul, I say, has much better things to do than waste its time on drugs.
People don't know their children as human beings, they know them as objects. I'm reminded of that cop who thought his kids were "safe" from drugs because he brought home a drug sniffing dog for a pet. So the kids found drugs the dog couldn't sniff. That is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. Guy doesn't have even the slightest inclination to develope a meaningful relationship with his kids--hell, I'm sure he thought he already had one--but for him they're really just a potential problem to circumvent.
Humans are not machines, much as they might wish it otherwise. You take away a mechanism that a human is participating in or relying upon without understanding why, humans will simply find another mechanism.
I've had friends who've gotten too serious about drugs and I noticed, right off. Of course, I'm not immune to conditioning, so I haven't usually confronted them about it until it's gotten a good deal more serious, but looking back I could always track the problem to the night or the weekend it started. Drugs are powerful dang things and they change a person if you're paying close attention. (And yeah, sometimes problems sneak under the radar, nobody's perfect, but missing a few really stealthy problems is not what Dreamtrove is talking about. I dare say, he's talking about the pervasive evasive soulessness of American life.)
Paying close attention. That's what having a relationship means: knowing people. Wanting to know people. Letting people know they matter to you because you ask them uncomfortable questions sometimes and don't take fishy answers. And you aren't gonna have much luck getting to know other people, if you're not serious about getting to know yourself--asking yourself the uncomfortable questions and not taking your slippery, fishy, all to familiar answers.
Srg. X is right. Our society thrives on breaking people up. It thrives on distraction. Yeah, the fascists love the porn and they love drugs, anything to anesthetize people from what's really going down in their world.
Relationships take time and a whole lot of effort, honesty and self-honesty. They're often uncomfortable and they hurt. Unless you value intimacy and relationships very, very highly, unless you're very motivated--unless you really, really value your soul--you will find
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Heavy drug use - especially methamphetamine and OxyContin - is most common in rural areas not suburbs or cities.
I couldn't find figures on the estimated percentage of 'habitual users'. Most studies asked about use in the last month or year. However, this result is interesting:
http://www.dps.state.mn.us/ots/enforcement_programs/Training_Info/Snar
eSept2005.doc
Overall, positive drug tests for amphetamine use among current employees stayed level at 4.5 percent.
But alcohol and cigarettes don't get the pass DT gives them. They are both addictive, have serious health consequences, and are widely used. They are far more damaging to the US health and economy than methamphetamine use, for example (not counting the costs of running the penal system to deal with illegal drugs).
http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/research_data/health_consequences/mortali.h
tm
Tobacco ~418,000 deaths/ yr in 2001
one in every five deaths in the United States is smoking related.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1448502
Tobacco use is the single most preventable cause of death and disease in the United States.
http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm
Alcohol ~76,000 deaths /yr in 2001
Excessive alcohol consumption is the third leading preventable cause of death in the United States (1) and is associated with multiple adverse health consequences, including liver cirrhosis, various cancers, unintentional injuries, and violence.
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Personally, I think that not only should drugs be made mostly legal, they should be prescribed and provided by the government. You get them in drab government-run dispensaries in plain-wrap packaging. No profit, no glamour, no lure of the unknown.
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Quote:
Auraptor,
It's anecdotal counter-argument stuff, you're essentially taking a pro-drug position in a clever way. Since you know that the war onm drugs has been basically agreed by everyone here to be a failure, that attacking it is not going to make a strong point.
Drug deaths include overdoses, gang warfare, suicides in large numbers, and homocides, abundantly. There was this recent methhead case of the guy coming back from canada with the bloody chainsaw, not to mention, the drug use in our military, and the incidents there, or in past militaries.
I'm not arguing this point. I don't have any interest in doing so. You're essentially asking me to prove that there is a problem, and I think we're way passed that. It's a form of backtracking, like the president asking people to prove global warming. It's already been proven enough.
First things first. Nothing about my position is 'anecdotal'. I firmly take the libertarian position that an individual ultimatly has the right to control his/her own body. In case you've missed the memo, I'm a conservative, but of the libertarian variety.
Death by drugs is greatly glossed over by your definition to include both self induced and violent deaths resulting from the illegalization of drugs. I find that argument to be intellectually dishonest. Were the 'war on drugs' ended, and more funds directed toward treatment and recovery, far fewere O.D's and suicides would occur.( I suggest you check out the CATO study on this matter )
I for one still am looking for the proof for the human causation of global warming. I do not subscribe to it being man made. The Earth's enviroment is in constant flux. Having studied Paleontology for over 20 yrs has taught me that fact, and a great deal more. I ask you this question, and anyone who buys into the global warming hysteria. Why has Mars' polar caps receeded at exactly the same time the Earth's temp has allegedly risen a fraction of a degree ?
Think about it.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:Why has the global temperature increased at an unprecedented rate in step with the industralisation of human technology?
Originally posted by AURaptor:
I for one still am looking for the proof for the human causation of global warming. I do not subscribe to it being man made. The Earth's enviroment is in constant flux. Having studied Paleontology for over 20 yrs has taught me that fact, and a great deal more. I ask you this question, and anyone who buys into the global warming hysteria. Why has Mars' polar caps receeded at exactly the same time the Earth's temp has allegedly risen a fraction of a degree ?
Think about it.
Think about it.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Ohhh pplease, not this old canard again "Why has Mars' polar caps receeded at exactly the same time the Earth's temp has allegedly risen a fraction of a degree ?" Anyone who does even a cursory look will find that ONE polar cap is receeding, while the OTHER is expanding ....
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Thanks for the threadjack, seriously, I'm through. There's a civil war in america, and I think almost everyone is on the wrong side.
Maybe this is no longer the land of american know how, and it has become the land of american feel good.
Maybe I should outsource myself.
U.S.A. R.I.P.
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Thanks for the threadjack, seriously, I'm through. There's a civil war in america, and I think almost everyone is on the wrong side.
Maybe this is no longer the land of american know how, and it has become the land of american feel good.
Maybe I should outsource myself.
U.S.A. R.I.P.
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
Thanks for the threadjack, seriously, I'm through. There's a civil war in america, and I think almost everyone is on the wrong side.
Maybe this is no longer the land of american know how, and it has become the land of american feel good.
Maybe I should outsource myself.
U.S.A. R.I.P.
Sorry for the side track, but it wasn't I who brought up the nonsense of global warming. That was your doing. All I did was reply. My bad.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Auraptor,
1. No, I wasn't sidetracking, I was blissfully unaware that there was a global warming denier, I was using it as a hypothetical.
2. I wasn't irked by the threadjack, I'm really convinced that there's no one who takes this issue seriously.
Personally, I feel pretty sure that virtually all the other issues we discuss are minor compared with this one, and that, to quote jurasic park, the only one I've got on my side is the bloodsucking lawyer. No offense.
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