Drug war
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Sunday, August 30, 2026 23:52
VIEWED: 6976
PAGE 6 of 8
Sergeantx FremdFirma RocketJock Citizen Chrismoorhead Sevenpercent - Your posts here have been very insightful and it's a joy to read that there are some people still have a bit of sanity and a sense of patriotism left in them. Thank god for the internet. There wouldn't be any truth told if we had only the boob tube to rely on. God forbid net neutrality and how that will end our last bastion of truth in this world.
And RocketJock ""Think of it as evolution in action" -- Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle".... they were frackin geniuses. My old man lent me some of their books during a summer break back in high school. My favorite is probably Footfall.
And now... Dreamtrove.... well well well. Where do we start here? If I didn't just read 5,000 different instances where you either claimed you weren't a drug user, exclaimed your distain for drugs (though not the ones Crime Dog McGruff says are okay), and basically labeled everyone you suspect of using drugs as being a sub-human species, not worthy of your time... well DT, I'd think you were a Meth-head myself.
Bottom line, (are you ready for this?) if we weren't forced to corral our own kids in public schools with people they don't get along with all day long, learning skills that still leave us uneducated in respects to the rest of the world, they wouldn't be doing drugs in the first place, and they wouldn't be around it anyhow. All the schooling and good grades got me was a button pushing job with computers. I'm still building other peoples dreams while I live my own little shitty life. Sure there's good times, but most of the time it's all pretty mediocre. Some people choose pot, others (like I'm sure you do) choose television. There's no reason that I couldn't have learned to do what I do at my job when I was in second grade and no amout of social studies or Chemestry or Calculus would have made me any better at what I do.
It's Centralized Government that is the problem. Its their constant meddling and beating us over the head with the thought that we are unable to take care of ourselves without them that's the problem. "It takes a village".... blah. Go to hell Clinton and take your big Government with you.
The one thing you're right about is that as a society, we're very sick and getting sicker by the day. Anybody else notice that our sociatal ill have grown exponentially, concurrently with the growth and expansion of our Government and their "Wars" on everything. My grandma would have done the same thing that that patriot old lady did if somebody unconstitutionally broke into her house without warrant or cause. I hope if it happens she puts them all in the morgue. She's under the belief that everything should be legalized and if the people had the means of protecting themselves, instead of putting their lives in the hands of the barbarians in blue, things would sort themselves out like they usually tend to. She's also a faithful church goer and Repuglican and I believe her when she says that she will pray for those who do drugs, seeing how two of her own children do.
The problem here is that the do-gooders and Oprah/Rosie worshipers (you probably included) bought into the political propoganda that we need all guns taken out of the hands of civilians. Couple that with the rediculous prices of drugs today because of the higher demand and danger level the "War" on drugs has produced and you've got a real problem getting the drugs in the hands of people that want them without a rise in violence and theft. If none of us are able to do anything to protect ourselves, in the mean time, then we have only the government to turn to for protection. What a fine job they're doing. Thanks for using my money so wisely.
I push for an end of the "War" on drugs, complete legalization of everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, including our God given right to bear arms, and putting the theory of Darwinism to use. If Darwinism is good enough to teach our kids in school, it's good enough to put into action in real life.
Oh... and what the hell
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7%
I know the chemsitry of this pretty much backwards and forwards, and you're spouting gibberish, imho.
POTUS and congress are examples of sound minds? Ph-lease.
People seem to be pretty stupid on this issue.
Convince you?
Just open your eyes, and tell me you don't see that people on drugs are less-sane then people not on drugs, and that cumulatively, people who use drugs don't get less sane, less sharp, and less productive.
Convince you?
That's like saying convince you the iraq war was wrong, or the holocaust for that matter. Which, btw, was a seriously amphetamine-induced event.
If you don't see it by now, it's probably hopeless.
I'm stunned by this reception.
The fact is, I KNOW that I'm not wrong, I got a ton of the real world experience backing me up. People take drugs, they drop out of college, lose all their ambitions, gets crazy, get guns, hole up in their personal hell and shoot up. I've seen it a bizillion times, and so have all of you.
Now for that a**hole who just posted.
Us Nazis. Funny. Nazis were, and still are, pro-drug. Check out any drug scene today, find the white power, and you've found the white powder, and vis versa.
My position? I'm just trying to save society from it's own certain self-destruction.
Bunch of Reavers if you ask me.
Obviously the cumulative brain damage, slow death and inability to feel, achieve, or even function coupled with the rampant disease, violence and totally dysfunctional paranoia that comes with this whole drug scene, clearly you people need something else to convince you that there's a problem here.
Remember back on the school thread where I said something to the effect of:
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Yeah, but we don't get to decide what's "good enough. That's up to the koreans, the japanese, and anyone who competes with us"
Well, here to, we don't get to decide what's good enough. Say you're a CEO of a company, and your workers are on crack. You don't think that's going to effect job performance? What about school performance? How would you like your doctor to be on crystal meth? It's no vicious rumor that the atrocities of the Iraq war were drug induced - on both sides.
I actually think the only sane one here besides me may be Rue, and a couple of folks who didn't comment.
Thanks for opening my eyes to exactly how serious this problem is. One big Reaver nation. God, you all deserve George W. Bush. And Bill Clinton, too, though I suppose if you smoked weed every day, you probably don't really remember the Clinton years. Fortunately, you can still go read up about them online.
So, I'm a dick, so sue me, I never pretended not to be a dick. But I'm the dick giving you the wake up call. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, and as a people, Americans are taking a step down on the evolutionary ladder.
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And you Dreamtrove for approving that... I thought you to be a semi-reasonable person but after reading that I must say you truly disgust me as a human being.
Spoken like a true addict.
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buy a gun, keep it loaded, and sleep with one eye open.
Um, no, that's what you druggies do.
This is the infection that's destroying our society. All that's necessary for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing. Right? If good men do drugs, then good men do nothing.
So, Vampires, Reavers, I think Joss gets it. Thanks for the heads up guys, better not to try to reason with the beast, just lock and load. (Not literally)
I'm a little surprised that none of the christians have posted here. No one seems to think that there is such a thing as a "drug problem" except me and Hero and possibly Rue. I guess I'm the looney fringe. There are a few times in your life when everone disagrees with you, and you gotta know you're right and stick to your guns. I know I'm right. I've got a ton of life experience to back it up, everything leads me to the conclusion that there *is* a drug problem. I came here to discuss what to do about this problem, which is the thing I don't know. Well, all the "
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Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm a little surprised that none of the christians have posted here. No one seems to think that there is such a thing as a "drug problem" except me and Hero and possibly Rue. I guess I'm the looney fringe. There are a few times in your life when everone disagrees with you, and you gotta know you're right and stick to your guns. I know I'm right. I've got a ton of life experience to back it up, everything leads me to the conclusion that there *is* a drug problem. I came here to discuss what to do about this problem, which is the thing I don't know. Well, all the "ignore it" advice goes back to the first step "there is no problem" argument, which, yes, is exactly like Bush's "there is no global warming" argument.
I don't think anyone here is saying, "There's not a problem" or "Let's ignore it." It's just that none of us see it as the overwhelming issue you present it as.
And, no, legalization isn't perfect, but it's a pretty good first step. It reduces crime, and lets the country focus on the drug problem as a health issue, not a legal issue (I think somebody's said that already, so kudos to you for being first, and kudos to me for quoting you). Well-adjusted people are going to understand their own tendencies toward addiction, and are going to know which drugs to avoid or take in moderation. The addicts, ones less well adjusted, probably need to have someone help them confront the underlying issues that cause them to resort to extreme escapism.
Ideally, society could shift its focus from seeing people as numbers, or workhorses (etc.), but... barring that, legalization (along with education) is the best method of dealing with the "drug war."
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I know the chemsitry of this pretty much backwards and forwards, and you're spouting gibberish, imho.
POTUS and congress are examples of sound minds? Ph-lease.
I never said they were examples of sound minds. You said that drug users couldn't be a success. I beg to differ. GWB may be (and is) a total idiot, but I somehow doubt anyone could call a POTUS a failure at life. Same with congress. Idiots all, but successes? Certainly.
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People seem to be pretty stupid on this issue.
Yeah. You do. Stop with the implied personal attacks, or I'll make Rue's treatment of Auraptor pale by comparison with my responses. Let's not go down that road.
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Convince you?
That's what I said. You haven't even really made an argument yet. All you have said is "drugs are bad because drugs are bad," and "believe me, drugs are bad." That's not an argument, that's an opinion. Back up your claims with facts. Your "it's destroying society" argument is laughable in the face of what I did just this morning. Went to church, had some pictures taken, did some Xmas shopping. Watching football now. Where was the crazed drug riot in the streets?
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Just open your eyes, and tell me you don't see that people on drugs are less-sane then people not on drugs, and that cumulatively, people who use drugs don't get less sane, less sharp, and less productive.
I know lots of recreational users. Many who have high-powered jobs. I know a lawyer that loves his MJ on the weekends. He makes 5x what I make, and is probably 5x as smart. How does that example fit into your puzzle?
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That's like saying convince you the iraq war was wrong, or the holocaust for that matter. Which, btw, was a seriously amphetamine-induced event.
No, the facts convince me of those. You haven't given me any facts yet for "drugs are bad (mmmmkay? - sorry, couldn't resist the reference)." Cite me some evidence, give me a personal anecdote, something. You've given nothing of the kind. I'm beginning to think 'same old DT, can't back up a fact,' which is sad given your vehemence on this issue.
Also, as someone with a degree in history and who is well-read on the Holocaust, I'd love for you to start another thread explaining how it was caused by amphetamine addiction. That should be interesting.
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I'm stunned by this reception.
The fact is, I KNOW that I'm not wrong, I got a ton of the real world experience backing me up.
Funny. GWB and the die-hard neocons said the same thing about Iraq. When 9/10 people disagree with you, and you can't back up your statements with examinable proof, it's time to start thinking you may be wrong.
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People take drugs, they drop out of college, lose all their ambitions, gets crazy, get guns, hole up in their personal hell and shoot up. I've seen it a bizillion times, and so have all of you.
No. I haven't. Where are these people you know that do this? Most of my friends in college smoked dope, drank themselves into a stupor, tried acid or ecstasy, or God only knows what all else. Almost all of them have jobs and families, and are wonderful people.
I again will state for the record that I bet you know someone personally, a brother or a close friend, who self-destructed on drugs and that's how you reached this conclusion. You had a bad experience and are scarred by it. If that's the case it's understandable - it's the MADD syndrome (that organization is famous for trying to ban alcohol and pass zero tolerance driving laws - but who can blame them, many of them lost kids to drunk driving). But just because you've seen one (or two, or even 50) bad cases, that does not make it true for the majority.
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I actually think the only sane one here besides me may be Rue, and a couple of folks who didn't comment.
I still want you to tell me how I'm not sane. Parse it out for me real simple-like. I don't use drugs. I don't drink enough in a year to fill a 12 pack of beer
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I'm sorry DT, but you've got your head too far up your own righteous arse, IMHO. You want to live in a world where people who have looked at a drug are treated as second class citizens and shot on sight, move to a totalitarian nation.
The more you go on the more you push me to the conclusion that you are pro choice as long as it's your choice. Your country would work great as a dictatorship, long as you're the dictator, and I'm done, but that's probably because I'm a stupid addict that raped his own grandma right.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Animals use drugs.
One of the most enlightening studies I read was about elephants.. (It was featured in Science News and titled "Drinking to Forget?"*). The researchers gave the elephants plenty of food but simply piled it in one spot. They also gave the elephants a choice of drink - one was plain water, the other 5% alcohol. The elephants lower on the totem pole - the ones that simply had to wait for food - preferred alcohol and did, at times, drink to staggering.
Now think of human society. We create a 'work or die' society. Then we create a 5% unemployment rate and call it good. (Roughly 12% of US males are permanently unemployed according to the BLS and aren't counted in the official unemployment rate.) Then after creating this hierarchy of survival we wonder why people use drugs.
Doesn't that seem just a little obtuse?
(*There is no link for the study - it's too old. It also reminds me of Jane Goodall's chimp observations - where accidentally piling food in one spot triggered unusual maladaptive behavior. But that's how we've structured our economy.)
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Yinyang,
Your argument makes more sense to me than most of the others. I disagree that legalization would be a good first step. Corporations must be waiting in the wings ready to produce recreational drugs in bulk and advertise them in TV, magazines, internet, as soon as uncle sam gives the word. I think that the first step would have to be to insure that that did not happen.
One of the real serious drug disaster stories i know is a neighbor's son who started smoking cigarettes at 11, almost entirely because of the Joe Camel Cash ad campaign. How many kids would be smoking Camel Crack in order to get free concert tickets?
I think the problem is critical, and I was sounding the red alert intentionally. I think, basically, almost an entire generation is lost. The brightest kid in town got totally derailed by drugs, I can think of one who might recover/drop drugs, and one who dropped the drug habit and is doing very well, has his own company now. But the overwhelming majority of gen y-ers here have been seriously led off track, to an iraq-style quagmire of their own lives.
Sure, it's not news, and it didn't happen suddenly, I just thought it was time to start reversing this trend before the united states becomes just another coca republic.
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but I somehow doubt anyone could call a POTUS a failure at life
Sorry. My bad. I was thinking that POTUS was a total miserable failure. I still do. I didn't mean to say that a drug addict couldn't attain a position, I meant they can't (sure, there may be exceptions,) but in general, they can't perform a function, well, or as well as, a non-addict.
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All you have said is "drugs are bad because drugs are bad," and "believe me, drugs are bad."
To be fair I think I said a great deal more. In short, drugs are bad because people who take drugs steadily lose various mental abilities, which sure, depends on the drug, but the main ones tend to be memory, judgment/perspective and stability.
But the other side of that is I have no interest in the argument "drugs are bad" because I think that's back pedalling, I think it's a rhetorical trick aimed at getting the discussion away from solving the problem by questioning the existance of the problem, ie. it's exactly what the Bush admin has done on global warming, and I think you're doing it for the same reason.
I suspect most people get the destructive effects of drugs because they have seen it happen more than one.
Am I too close to the problem? Possibly. As I said a few times before, my sister is a rehab counselor. But mostly she's just told me what to look for, and because of that, I've recognized that it is as bad as it is.
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I know lots of recreational users. Many who have high-powered jobs. I know a lawyer that loves his MJ on the weekends. He makes 5x what I make, and is probably 5x as smart. How does that example fit into your puzzle?
Give it time, he'll get dumber.
Amphetamines were part of the regimine in nazi germany. They lead to bizarre violent behavior. I think this makes perfect sense, in the absense of any other explanation.
The tendency to think death is cool, and torture, mutilation, etc., in my humble experience, has always gone hand in hand with hard drug use. Not mj, not alcohol, but heroin, coke or meth. Just, sure, people I've known.
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it's time to start thinking you may be wrong.
not a chance. I'll start thinking I'm wrong when the balance of evidence turns against me.
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I again will state for the record that I bet you know someone personally, a brother or a close friend, who self-destructed on drugs and that's how you reached this conclusion.
I've known endless numbers.
S. an G. both dropped out of college and G. started getting high full time, spending all his money, D. became a permanent scitzophrenic after binging on heroin and coke, M. commited suicide because he thought he could fly while high, J. is holed up in a cabin with an AK 47 staying up all night in a chair, gun in lap, waiting
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I don't know about you DreamTrove, but I for one welcome our Meth-addled, AK-47 toting, Brave New World overlords.
"A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." http://www.myspace.com/6ixstringjack
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DT,
I propose drugs be made legal and supplied by government (in constant amounts) to registered users in plain wrap out of dreary pharmacies.
No profit, no glamour, no lure of the unknown.
PS But to really mend the drug problem you'd have to change the economy. For every 1% rise in unemployment you get a 2% rise in alcoholism.
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Originally posted by dreamtrove:
If you weren't using yourself, you'd see this clearly. The rest of us are completely unable to do our own thing because your own thing is fucking it up. You're free to do your own thing somewhere else, but not in our homes with our kids bringing your dealers and addicts and their AK47s and everything. No way, no gorram way. Not on my boat.
I tried to get throught this thread all the way before replying, I truely did, but this post made me throw up in my mouth a little.
DT, wtf is wrong with you? I'm am not a user, to any degree. I have never introduced an controlled substance into my body that wasn't perscribed. I drink, and regardless of what you believe, alcohol is a drug and a very detrimental one to this country. I've never seen a pothead fight, but you bet your ass I've been witness to more than a few barroom brawls.
I won't disagree with you, we have a staggering drug problem in this country, but it's not the recreational drugs that are destroying us. It's crap like prozak and ritalin that are forced down our collective throats for diseases I'm not even convinced exist. What makes those drugs exempt from your crusade? Big Pharm endorsing them?
Why don't you climb down off your cross, use the wood to build a bridge, and get over it? It's not your place to judge, and it's not your place to decide who needs to be 'redeemed'. I think we should create a thread to help us decide what to do with self-important, ill-informed, un-relenting bastards like you. Personally I think it's people like you and the PC crowd that make me and mine 'completely unable to do our thing' because of the crap you pull. But you don't see me saying we should poison you or relocate you. This is America and you have every right to be a pompous asshat as everyone else on this board has a right to be.
I think at this point, the best thing you can do is accept the fact that the majority of people posting on this thread think you are full of s
t and move on to your next cross burning. Thanks for coming out.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be in my bunk.
XO of the 76th Battalion http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower
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