Tonight's Angel was Beautiful
POSTED BY: Knibblet
UPDATED: Friday, February 13, 2004 15:54
VIEWED: 22585
PAGE 8 of 9
The differance is, Angel's decision to become a vampire didn't directly affect anyone but himself, at least initially. I'm not sure if his reason for chosing this is discussed at any point, but I'd wager he made the decision because he wanted to be powerful and immortal, not because he wanted to do harm to people.
The other differance is that Angel's mistake is hundreds of years old. He's a completly differant man now; ashamed of his past, and seeking redemption. The lawyers in that room made no effort to change, and didn't mind doing all the horrible things they did every day.
You are right, though. Those lawyers did make bad choices; they made them often. And it's the choices that we make that determine who we are. Killing someone is a poor decision, and you are held accountable. Wheras Angel's decision to become a vampire is akin to deciding to drive a car while you're tired; if you fall asleep and kill someone, it isn't the same as if you hunt them down and beat them to death.
-Steve
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
The differance is, Angel's decision to become a vampire didn't directly affect anyone but himself, at least initially. I'm not sure if his reason for chosing this is discussed at any point, but I'd wager he made the decision because he wanted to be powerful and immortal, not because he wanted to do harm to people.
The other differance is that Angel's mistake is hundreds of years old. He's a completly differant man now; ashamed of his past, and seeking redemption. The lawyers in that room made no effort to change, and didn't mind doing all the horrible things they did every day.
You are right, though. Those lawyers did make bad choices; they made them often. And it's the choices that we make that determine who we are. Killing someone is a poor decision, and you are held accountable. Wheras Angel's decision to become a vampire is akin to deciding to drive a car while you're tired; if you fall asleep and kill someone, it isn't the same as if you hunt them down and beat them to death.
-Steve
So, you are arguing intent then? Like.. because Angel didn't really know what he was getting into when he decided to become a vampire, then that makes him less guilty of the crimes that were committed? And because the lawyers actively intended to continue to make these poor decisions they are then MORE responsible for there "evil" than angel? I dunno.. it's a tuff sell but I can kinda see what you're saying.
I personally believe that even an alcoholic is as responsible for the deaths he causes in an automobile accident that he didn't intend to get into when drinking, as say, the DC sniper or someone who actively went out to kill people.
Anyway.. I guess this tangent has been gloriously traversed.. What my original point was = ...to me Wes just seems to get the raw end of the deal over and over again.. he seems like a generally good guy who.. (in the evidence I have seen) hasn't deserved it "as much" as angle and spike. Obviously you believe that the soul of spike and angel are innocent of the crimes committed throughout the ages in their guise. I am still not so sure about that.
If you believe the soul of angel is innocent.. I guess I might be able to buy that.. BUT.. Angel as he is now seems to be "a being which is comprised of the soul of the human he once was.. and the angelus demon sharing the same body".. I believe he is the sum of those parts and therefore responsible to some extent for both Angel and Angelus' crimes.
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Quote:
Originally posted by twoblueeyes:
And SpaceAngler, if you live in the Richmond area, Angel is broadcast on Channel 12 (NBC) on Friday at 2:30 a.m. ! I'd prefer the WB's scheduled airing but at least it's shown here !
Actually, it didn't. Some show called "Everwood" came on. Anyone know where I can get it?
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Spike: We all have addictions, Angel. I believe yours is called 'Slutty the Vampire Slayer.'
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Quote:
Originally posted by SpaceAngler:Quote:
Originally posted by twoblueeyes:
And SpaceAngler, if you live in the Richmond area, Angel is broadcast on Channel 12 (NBC) on Friday at 2:30 a.m. ! I'd prefer the WB's scheduled airing but at least it's shown here !
Actually, it didn't. Some show called "Everwood" came on. Anyone know where I can get it?
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Spike: We all have addictions, Angel. I believe yours is called 'Slutty the Vampire Slayer.'
Are you in the Richmond area ? Honestly, I saw it, got up 2:30 a.m., Friday ! Can I send you a tape ?
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I agree; Angel and Spike are partially responsable for the deaths because of tehir decision to become vampires. But they never conciously decided to kill anyone (though Angel allowed several to be killed through neglect).
As for Wes...I don't think I ever really forgave him for stealing Conner. You don't take a man's child like that. Isn't right. I know, he thought it was in danger, yadda yadda; but if your neighbor and his baby are living in a house that violates fire safty codes, you tell the neighbor, and get the problem fixed; you don't break into his house at night and steal the kid.
That was sweet when he shot his 'dad' like eight times, though.
-Steve
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
I agree; Angel and Spike are partially responsable for the deaths because of tehir decision to become vampires. But they never conciously decided to kill anyone (though Angel allowed several to be killed through neglect).
As for Wes...I really forgave himfor stealing Conner. You don't take a man's child like that. Isn't right. I know, he thought it was in danger, yadda yadda; but if your neighbor and his baby are living in a house taht violates fire saftey codes, you tell the neighbor, and get the problem fixed; you don't break into his house at night and steal the kid.
That was sweet when he shot his 'dad' like eight times, though.
-Steve
Bwahaha..
yeah i was so thrilled when wes shot his "Dad" like that.. I agree wes made a bad call stealing connor like that.However.. Angel used to make it a real big deal to let folks know that the most important thing you could do to be his friend is know when to put him down if it came to that... I think wes, having been privy to Angelus' nature in the past, was simply affaid that this was the time.. though.. i don't like his methods.. he should have told his friends.. not acted alone.. so.. yeah.. it was not cool of him
damn, i think we sucessfully finished that entirely-too-deep-for-this-board conversation. you have my respect for hanging in there
~~Robb of Winterfell~~
~ http://winterfell.org ~
High Fantasy Heavy Metal
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Quote:
Originally posted by Winterfell:
Bwahaha..
However.. Angel used to make it a real big deal to let folks know that the most important thing you could do to be his friend is know when to put him down if it came to that... I think wes, having been privy to Angelus' nature in the past, was simply affaid that this was the time.. though.. i don't like his methods.. he should have told his friends.. not acted alone.. so.. yeah.. it was not cool of him
damn, i think we sucessfully finished that entirely-too-deep-for-this-board conversation. you have my respect for hanging in there
Lol, thanks
Yeah, I watched the dad-shooting scene like eight times, and showed it to several friends who'd never even heard of the show. It was just so cool!
Wasn't Wes also the one that had the slow-motion scene at the beginning of that ep -- where he takes both guns, and does a kind of Max Payne dive? Because that was nice, too.
-Steve
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Quote:
Originally posted by Steve580:
Lol, thanks
Yeah, I watched the dad-shooting scene like eight times, and showed it to several friends who'd never even heard of the show. It was just so cool!
Wasn't Wes also the one that had the slow-motion scene at the beginning of that ep -- where he takes both guns, and does a kind of Max Payne dive? Because that was nice, too.
-Steve
hell yeah it was.. just another neat trait they gave that character as time went on.. his gun-slinging-superior-aim-thing!
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Ok, I was stuck in Dallas. At a boat show.
My wife recorded it. Sat down & watched it last night. Freaking Shiny Wow! I could not stop cheering & crying. This was so Awesome. I loved Season 1. Doyle! The hat totally goes to my wife who sat by my side and gave nothing away. I have so many fav moments I really can't list them.
“Firefly is the source of probably more joy & pain than anything I’ve done.” - Joss
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