Evil
POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Sunday, October 29, 2006 14:39
VIEWED: 8182
PAGE 2 of 14
Quote:I'm right there with ya, Righteous.
Originally posted by Righteous9:
I happen to believe that unregulated capitalism is no longer capitalism, and I happen to believe that social programs actually foster capitalism. I believe in a free-market system, just not a corporafaccist one that kills competition rather than enables it.
Just funnin'with right-wing nonsense Chrisisall
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I figured you were, but not a bad idea to make myself clear to anybody else reading the posts.
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Quote:Yep. Newbies abound
Originally posted by Righteous9:
I figured you were, but not a bad idea to make myself clear to anybody else reading the posts.
Chrisisall, not actually rich, just spiritually well-off.
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Quote:Social programs are socialist, that they also happen in mostly Capitalist countries is an indication that those nations have intergrated some aspects of Socialism.
Originally posted by Righteous9:
to respond to you Crisisall, I don't think that the view of the 'needs of the many outweighing the needs of the few' has to be taken as socialist.
The very muscle behind capitalism is that it is more succesful at including the many and improving the many than is communism.
I happen to believe that unregulated capitalism is no longer capitalism, and I happen to believe that social programs actually foster capitalism. I believe in a free-market system, just not a corporafaccist one that kills competition rather than enables it.
Capitalism is something that requires selfishness, "I'm more important than you". As you point out this isn't necessarilly 'bad' especially when all competitors are equal, but it's not necessarilly 'good' either, enter corporofacism. As I've said before (and bizarrly singles me out as an 'extremist lefty' in some eyes) I think a balance has to be reached between the "I'm most important" Individual rights of Capitalism and the "They're most important" collectivism of Socialism. Not erradication of one or the other.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:And, I'm right there with you too, Citizen.
Originally posted by citizen:
As I've said before (and bizarrly singles me out as an 'extremist lefty' in some eyes) I think a balance has to be reached between the "I'm most important" Individual rights of Capitalism and the "They're most important" collectivism of Socialism.
Chrisisall that's left
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I don't believe in Evil. I believe in Stupid, and I believe in Malice (which I define as the deliberate intent to cause harm as its own goal --some people just enjoy inflicting pain. Makes 'em feel better about themselves).
What we call "evil" is just that which runs counter to our own interests; it's inherently subjective. By the same notion, "good" is just another way of saying "what I/we want." I'm a firm believer in "enlightened self-interest" as a guide to policy, I just wish people would stop forgetting the "enlightened" part.
(You don't eliminate a threat by killing it. That just makes more threats as people start looking for vengeance. You eliminate a threat by removing its reason to be a threat. Violence comes about because someone wants something and is convinced that this is the best way to get it. Find some way for them to get what they want without having to kill/rape/abuse people, and suddenly there's no reason to fight. Without a social outlet for their violent tendencies, the truly malicious will find other pursuits, like video games or movie-making.)
Nobody has ever willfully set out to do anything "evil." They all set out looking to do good for somebody (even if its just themselves), and feeling that this good is more important than whatever they may do to get it. Sometimes people know they're doing horrible things, and they justify themselves. Other times, people go to their graves knowing that they're in the right, and history (written by the victorious moral majority) bears them out.
Only real difference between "good" and "evil" is the number of people agreeing with you. The rationalizations for "good" are so smooth and collectively ingrained that they seem perfectly natural.
Hitler? He was looking out for what he felt were Germany/the Aryan race's best interests. People outside of Germany (or non-Aryans) could go hang. His flaw was Stupidity, manifested in thinking that he knew what Germany's best interests were better than anyone else, and in thinking that a common enemy to unite the people was going to solve anything.
Stalin? Again, the best interests of his people, even if it meant saving them from themselves. More Stupidity, same general type as Adolph's.
The KKK? The best interests of their race. They acted in both Stupidity (thinking their skin colour makes them somehow superior) and Malice (If there were no non-whites around, they would've found others to hurt --they needed an inferior to abuse to justify themselves).
Bin Laden? Best interests of not only his own people, but of everyone else (he's trying to save souls by destroying what he sees as a corruptive influence). Again, Stupidity (thinking that it would be easier to change the system from without by force than from within by education and cooperation).
Jerry Falwell? Same as Bin Laden, actually, just with the inertia of a much larger country behind him (and other people around to run his favourite war for him). There's probably an alternate universe out there where the US is a predominantly Muslim nation and Falwell's commanding armies of Christian suicide-bombers to bring down the corrupt capitalist Muslims.
Bush? He's doing exactly what he claims he's doing; trying to make America safe and eliminate a threat. He's just going about it all wrong. Bush isn't the bad guy, he's just a well-meaning idiot caught up in a situation he can't find his way out of (maybe he hasn't been given the right psychological tools, maybe his hands are tied, maybe he's dealing with other psychological issues that we know nothing about).
Patriotism is the worst idea anyone ever had. It's too easy a rationalization for bigots who aren't allowed to play the "race" or "religion" card. Can't even call them bigots; they're "patriots," and most of them are too stupid to even realize what they're doing.
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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.
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What about the old guy here in California? 89 year old guy drove his car thru a barrier at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market. Killed 10 people, injured dozens. Says he got confused, stepped on the gas instead of the brake, then couldn't figure out how to stop. Jury just found him guitly of 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter, and gross negligence. He seems , in his public statements, to be genuinely remorseful, and convinced that this was an accident.
Is he evil?
He's facing some very large number of years in prison, which he may or may not serve.
I think evil lies in the intention.
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
Evil is KNOWING that who you hurt, you do so in the name of the Lord.
Bottom line Chrisisall
So...you can only do evil in God's name then? Richard Dawkins would love you...
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Grand High Poobah of the Mythical Land of Iowa, and Keeper of State Secrets
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Apparently too many people saw the gleeful grin on his face as he swerved to aim at pedestrians.
Quote:
Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
What about the old guy here in California? 89 year old guy drove his car thru a barrier at the Santa Monica Farmer's Market. Killed 10 people, injured dozens. Says he got confused, stepped on the gas instead of the brake, then couldn't figure out how to stop. Jury just found him guitly of 10 counts of vehicular manslaughter, and gross negligence. He seems , in his public statements, to be genuinely remorseful, and convinced that this was an accident.
Is he evil?
He's facing some very large number of years in prison, which he may or may not serve.
I think evil lies in the intention.
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Quote:Naw, that was just on the top of my list...
Originally posted by Causal:
So...you can only do evil in God's name then?
Servin' the fluffy Chrisisall
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