Am I the only One?

POSTED BY: Chewie
UPDATED: Thursday, October 5, 2006 02:46
VIEWED: 15226
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AURAPTOR

Saturday, September 30, 2006 12:38 PM

Quote:
rue wrote:
Friday, September 29, 2006 14:50

AUraptor, I recall he was a fervent Bush supporter even before 9/11. Unfortunately the archives don't go back far enough.

Darn right they don't go back that far. That would be before this site even existed!!! This is why you shouldn't rely on your memory so much. First of all, this site wasn't even up until April 1, 2002. That's over 6 months AFTER we were attacked. And secondly, I didn't member up there until Jan 7, 2004. So, exactly how do you 'recall' that I was a fervent Bush supporter before 9/11 ? I didn't even vote for Bush in the 2000 election, but instead voted for the Libertarian candidate, Harry Browne. So your misconceptions about me, what I think and who I supported show that you're WAY off the mark.

As usual.

AURaptor - Member Since: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 14:37

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Saturday, September 30, 2006 1:08 PM

Quote:
I would propose that fascism recurs because of a fear of responsibility and awful, hard work. In other words, laziness. It is so much easier to entrust our defense and security to a benevolent government than to take responsibility to arm and secure ourselves. And once you give the government that job, it is only a matter of time before they decide to secure society against its own members, i.e. fascism.

Erm, fascism has never reoccurred. It occurred once during the early-mid twentieth century, and it never occurred before then and it hasn't occurred since. That is yet, frankly Bush's government seems to like a few of the Nazi rhetorical techniques.

BTW people tend to confuse Fascism and Nazism, both tend to exalt the state over the individual, and tend to single themselves out as the master race, true Italians for Mussolini's Fascists, the Aryan race for Nazi Germany. One of the major differences is that Hitler's Nazism went further to blame any problems of society on some group, in Hitler's case the International Jew and the Bolsheviks they were in league with. Where in lies the major source of Nazism power, no one likes to think it's their fault, so in Nazism it's someone else's. Didn't pass that University degree? Obviously the International Jew used his banking contacts to prevent you from succeeding (I say his because we all know the international Jew represses women).

Also fear is always a powerful motivator, but we're not talking little psychological fears like being afraid of responsibility (BTW that's a very cynical view you have there, people let Jews get sent to the gas chamber because they're afraid of deciding things for themselves?) we're talking paralysing physical fear that you and your family are under very real physical threat from THEM.

THEY are under your bed, in your homes (and THEY haven't the right). THEY want to kill YOU, THEY HATE you because you're somehow better than them. You have more freedoms and THEY HATE freedom.

These International Jews and Bolsheviks had infiltrated German society, they stayed hidden and rotted the nation from within. They were a real and present danger that was the greatest threat the German nation had ever faced. Such a threat required an extreme response, what's a few freedoms if you're family is at stake?

Enter the war on terror.

And just so we can dispense with the possibility of the flame war, AU, let me complete the meat of any subsequent conversation here so you need not reply:
AU:
What you fail to realise with your ASSumptions is that Terrorists are a real threat, they really are trying to kill us, all of us. You maybe too stupid to see the real threat but they want to kill you and your family. Luckily there are people out there who aren't cowards, and are prepared to work to keep YOU safe.

Me:
Yeah that's what the Nazi's said.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

FELLOWTRAVELER

Saturday, September 30, 2006 1:12 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:

Abe Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for EVERYONE, and the nation survived.

http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html

Quote:
On September 15, 1863, Lincoln imposed Congressionally-authorized martial law. The authorizing act allowed the President to suspend habeas corpus throughout the entire United States. Lincoln imposed the suspension on "prisoners of war, spies, or aiders and abettors of the enemy," as well as on other classes of people, such as draft dodgers. The President's proclamation was challenged in ex parte Milligan (71 US 2 [1866]). The Supreme Court ruled that Lincoln's imposition of martial law (by way of suspension of habeas corpus) was unconstitutional.

"If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."

AURAPTOR

Saturday, September 30, 2006 1:22 PM

Quote:
AU:
What you fail to realise with your ASSumptions is that Terrorists are a real threat, they really are trying to kill us, all of us. You maybe too stupid to see the real threat but they want to kill you and your family. Luckily there are people out there who aren't cowards, and are prepared to work to keep YOU safe.

Me:
Yeah that's what the Nazi's said.

No, that's not at all what the Nazi's said. The Nazi's used the Jews as scapegoats for all the problems following post WW1 Germany. Fact is, WW1 is what caused Germany's problems, not the Jews. And the Islamic terrorist really ARE trying to kill us. They've repeatedly said so. They've murdered Theo Van Gogh, they decapitated Christian school girls in Malaysia, they raped, shot and blew up over 200 children in Beslan, Russsia, sawed the heads off of over a dozen international workers in Iraq, blew up trains in London and Madrid, murdered 3,000 people in NY, D.C. and Pennsylvania......

For you or anyone to compare the Nazi's propaganda concerning Jews in the 1930's to the very REAL events going on today is to show a level of denial and ignorance unparalleled in human history.

It really does stagger my mind that so many don't see this for what it is. If I tried to figure your mindset on this, I'd go crazy.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Saturday, September 30, 2006 1:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
No, that's not at all what the Nazi's said.

Yes it is. Perhaps you should start reading history rather than rewriting it.

Quote:
The Nazi's used the Jews as scapegoats for all the problems following post WW1 Germany. Fact is, WW1 is what caused Germany's problems, not the Jews. And the Islamic terrorist really ARE trying to kill us. They've repeatedly said so. They've murdered Theo Van Gogh, they decapitated Christian school girls in Malaysia, they raped, shot and blew up over 200 children in Beslan, Russsia, sawed the heads off of over a dozen international workers in Iraq, blew up trains in London and Madrid, murdered 3,000 people in NY, D.C. and Pennsylvania......

For you or anyone to compare the Nazi's propaganda concerning Jews in the 1930's to the very REAL events going on today is to show a level of denial and ignorance unparalleled in human history.

It really does stagger my mind that so many don't see this for what it is. If I tried to figure your mindset on this, I'd go crazy.

I can pick any group that has done things on a par with what you just posted. So who do you want me to malign as the new danger to world freedom? Americans, Britons, Christians, Jews, Postal Workers, Communists, Capitalists, Mothers, Fathers, Candlestick makers? Just say the word and I'll give you a new scapegoat for all the worlds ills.

There's certainly a level of denial and ignorance going on around here, I think some people are confusing where it's coming from...

Quote:
Originally posted by Oracle-Zen:
AU:
What you fail to realise with your ASSumptions is that Terrorists are a real threat, they really are trying to kill us, all of us. You maybe too stupid to see the real threat but they want to kill you and your family. Luckily there are people out there who aren't cowards, and are prepared to work to keep YOU safe.

Me:
Yeah that's what the Nazi's said.

Okay you said exactly what I said you would, you just used more words, why say ten words if you can say it with two anyway?

Do you need me to repeat my responce or can we take it as writ?

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

SIGNYM

Saturday, September 30, 2006 2:29 PM

Quote:
Luckily there are people out there who aren't cowards, and are prepared to work to keep you safe.

Auraptor- The Founding Fathers managed to fight the British and create a new nation.... while their lives, homes, businesses and families were at stake. It wasn't even popular to be a rebel. And not only did they NOT resort to the kind of oppression that you long for they created a document with all of these wonderful guarantees of freedom. THEIR minds weren't enslaved by fear, they weren't looking for the ultimate safety blanket, THEY were focused on liberty. Would you give that away? Are you saying we can't manage half of what they did?

And BTW- You STILL haven't made the case that giving up habeas corpus (and a whole bunch of other rights) is even necessary in any sense. History shows us that the the FF and Lincoln won without the power of random detention. Unless you show us that it is necessary, I will count your opinion as shivering, naked fear of the bogeyman.

But remember, Auraptor- bullets can never kill a nightmare. No laws will ever make you feel safe. No matter what you sacrifice to your fear you will still be afraid. Because fear doesn't come from
the outside- it is within you.
---------------------------------
I faced the bogeymen and came out the other side. You can too.

GLUEMAN

Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:25 PM

Quote:

How so many chickens in the Hen house have come to fear the Farmer more than the wolf that's trying to eat them, is beyond me.

The problem with the powers the congress has given the "Preznit" is he could possibilly use it on our own US citizens. What happens if the next president doesn't like your political views or see you as a enemy combatant? Who's the Farmer and Who's the Wolf? Look into the mirror...If the tables were turned and you were placed in a detention centers being built by KBR right now somewhere in the USA, what recourse would you have if you committed no crime?

Habeas Corpus?

We need to rise to higher standard.

Hopefully the SCOTUS will save us from ourselfs.

OLDENGLANDDRY

Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:15 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Chewie:
Am I the only one disturbed by the fact that Congress has voted to allow the President of the United States of America to throw out the Geneva Convention? He can now accuse anyone of being a terrorist. Hold them indefinitely, TORTURE them, and NEVER has to prove that they are in fact terrorists?

Am I the only one scared by this?

Chewie

Whats more scary?
The vote itself, or the number of armchair neo-Fascist apologists who are prepared to defend it?

Yes, you know who you are.

JONGSSTRAW

Saturday, September 30, 2006 10:05 PM

Geneva Conventions are treaties signed by reciprocating nations. Al Qaida & other maniac Islamic Terrorist murderers are not any nation and have never signed any civilized treaty about prisoner treatment.

Our soldiers and civilians have been kidnapped, tortured ( real torture, not US type coersion), been beheaded, been tied up to bridges and set ablaze, etc etc. The vile enemy uses women and children to kill other women and children.

These animals have no rights, they are not civilized men, just murderers and promulgators of madness and insanity.

We should do whatever is ever necessary to defend and protect American citizens.

CITIZEN

Saturday, September 30, 2006 11:18 PM

Yes they aren't Human, so it's okay to do what we like as long as it's not quite as bad as them.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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