Am I the only One?
POSTED BY: Chewie
UPDATED: Thursday, October 5, 2006 02:46
VIEWED: 15226
PAGE 9 of 11
Yes. Military Tribunals are under the authority of the President and Scy Defense, but it appears that not all tribunals under their authority are necessarily Military Tribunals, which follow well-established procedures. I assume that was the point of writing: "Military Tribunals or any other Tribunal..." You know, any other... ie NOT Military Tribunal. Clear now?
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Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.
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AU Raptor, perhaps it is the innocence of youth that is blurring your perception of the situation. I continue to hope that you are doing the best you can with the information that you have.
There is an old saying to the effect of, "History will repeat itself until we learn the lesson it is trying to teach us." As a Clancy fan, perhaps you would recognize, "True intelligence is the ability to learn from other people's mistakes." (From Clear and Present Danger.
There has never been a government that has not abused its power. The more powerful the nation, the greater the abuse. The US Gov't? Tuskeegee, Check bouncing, intern bouncing, internment camps, bridges to nowhere, dates drowned in rivers, we still have a Helium reesrve that is maintained to keep our wartime dirigibles (terrible spelling) airborne (haven't had them since WWI), Bay of pigs, Ruby Ridge, Waco, Elian Gonzales...
And this is a short list of the stuff they tried to get away with With Oversight!
Giving a government the chance to do /anything/ with noone being allowed to even know it happened or question it if they did is simply too much.
Does everything that happens need to be on the 5 o'clock news? No. But requiring judicial review, warrants, and due process is very reasonable.
I, and I imagine several others on this board, have military training, and interesting jobs/hobbies. All nice and legal like. Never commited a crime, no intention of doing so in the future. But if any of us were intending to misbehave, we'd be able to make a fair sized mess of things.
I go to Rachmanistenfelsteinistan for a vacation because I hear they have the worlds best gravy, and I want to compare it to my grandmothers. Turns out there's a guy who knows a guy that once contributed to a homeless dude's cup, and he (the homeless dude) bought a stick of gum from a guy that blew himself up in a trainstation; who eats luch in 'The worlds best gravy' restaraunt the same day I do.
I come back to the 'States, but don't make it beyond JFK because now I'm an enemy combatant by virtue of my training, hobbies, job, contacts, and oh yeah, I wrote to my congressman and am known to be an agitator from way back. I've done nothing remotely illegal, but because I know things, (not people, not plans, not intentions, just 'stuff' (field surgery, how to hurt people, how communications systems work, the lyrics to 'The Hero of Canton'...) I'm detained, disappeared, tortured, and in general given plenty of motivation to put my knowlege to use. All nice and legal under the new law.
I have no interest in there being 'thought police'. You can't stop the signal. Knowlege should be free and widely disseminated (Yay internet!). Problem is, the government wants all internet activity to be monitored and recorded forever. Library, and telephone records too.
Maybe (I'm willing to admit there is a chance), this administration won't abuse their power. But each succeeding administration is 90% more likely than the one before to abuse the power.
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Do you know what your sin is Captain?
Aww hell, I'm a big fan of all seven.
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citizen - you really are fucking pathetic. Like a parrot, you sqwak over and over that you've proven me wrong, when you've done nothing remotely of the sort. You posting of irrelevent quips about what the Nazis SAY vs what today's Jihadist really ARE DOING only shows you've got no clue what the hell you're talking about. Any reasonable person would be able to understand that, IN CONTEXT, the Jews of the 1920's and 30's posed no where near the threat to the Germans or Western Europe than the Islamic radicals do today. In fact, it's the holocaust deniars who say exactly what you say. Bet you're fond of being in that company, huh?
And why the fuck are you bringing up bible stories for ? ? Oh, that's right, since you have nothing to support your views, you'd thought it'd be cute to 'prove me wrong' and go back a few thousand yrs and show what bad asses the Jews REALLY were. ( Keyword - WERE ). Well, huckleberry, the rest of us are living in the 21st century, while your buddies, the Towel heads, are eager to return us to THEIR glory years, the 7th century. Again, you failed to prove me wrong. But then, you're damn good at failing.
My views on radical Islam are 100% accurate, you're just too much of a chicken shit coward to admit it. Your little Island tift w/ the Cathoics in N.Ireland has been a real tragedy, but it fails to compare to what is happening now, world wide, with radical Islam. Just put a sock in it and spare us all your whining.
Just admit you're wrong. Everyone knows it already. It won't hurt. Honest.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Yes. Military Tribunals are under the authority of the President and Scy Defense, but it appears that not all tribunals under their authority are necessarily Military Tribunals, which follow well-established procedures. I assume that was the point of writing: "Military Tribunals or any other Tribunal..." You know, any other... ie NOT Military Tribunal. Clear now?
I've been clear, obviously you're confused. It doesn't say "Military Tribunals or other tribunals'. It says "Combat Status Review Tribunal or other tribunals." CSRTs are just one of several Military Tribunals that can be established.
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I'll be in my bunk.
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower
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Citizen, I do take issue with something you said in one of your posts. You say you've lived under the threat of terrorism from Catholics simply because you are British. That's a misleading statement. You are under the threat of terrorist attacks from the Irish, whome happen to be Catholic, and not because you are British, but because your government has yet to give Ireland it's sovreignity. It's amazing that Britain gives up most of it's Empire, including China, but for some reason find a way to justify keeping Ireland. The Catholics in Ireland are the minority and they were protecting their existance, it's a big difference than the Islamic Extremist reasons for killing us.
Besides, the IRA has surrendered it's weapons in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement.
Now I'll admit, I'm not as up to date on the current situation as you may be, as you live in Britain and are living with it every day.
You are right though, it is wrong for anyone to blanket an entire people with a stereotype. I know several muslims and most of them wouldn't hurt a fly, but they are only one facet of the group. There is a very vocal minority that is the pinicle of evil and violence. This is, after all, a religion who's holy book tells them to kill the 'infidel' which, I'm sad to say, is all of us.
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I'll be in my bunk.
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower
http://members17.clubphoto.com/michael809717/guest-1.phtml
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Thanks for distilling 300 years of complicated religious, political and social history into "It's their land". You'll be buggering back to where you came from and leaving the native Americans to it then?
And AURaptor, it's you everyone knows is wrong. Even Bush, laughably, agrees that Gitmo has to be ended. Except he's now created a massive problem for himself and can't solve it.
If I was abducted from my country, stripped, shaved, tortured, held without trial or reason for years and then released... oh you better believe I'm going to terrorise you. I'd burn your country down to the fucking ground. So when people are released from Guantanamo start doing what every sane person would: i.e. killing as many Americans (preferably in high office) as they can, let's not hear anything about how this proves that the camp was right. It proves that the camp was wrong.
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Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
If I was abducted from my country, stripped, shaved, tortured, held without trial or reason for years and then released... oh you better believe I'm going to terrorise you. I'd burn your country down to the fucking ground. So when people are released from Guantanamo start doing what every sane person would: i.e. killing as many Americans (preferably in high office) as they can, let's not hear anything about how this proves that the camp was right. It proves that the camp was wrong.
Up until this point I simply thought you were naive. Now I know you're ignorant. If you think slaughtering people, innocents no less, is not only justifiable, but "what any sane person would do", you have a very sick,
up sense of justice. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll be in my bunk.
http://www.myspace.com/babywiththepower
http://members17.clubphoto.com/michael809717/guest-1.phtml
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Hell, the Old Testament is no exception if you want to look for proof whether or not you should kill heathens or idolaters. Moses came down from the hill and told all those with a sword to come help him cleanse all the people who were making the graven image of the cow. I believe both Saul and David were told by god to attack a city and kill every last mother and child.
Any text can be interpreted any way. It's absolute nonsense to suggest that Islam is more violent by design than Christianity. As I heard recently from a guy on Bill Maher, it's not the religion that is violent, it is people who are violent.
And you will then say, "just look around you, clearly islam is a religion of hate." And I could say "just look around you, clearly Christianity is a religion of hate," but I will agree with one thing. The type of extremism being acted on in the Muslim World is at a higher level than current Christian extremism.
And why is that a surprise. When people have nothing else...when they can't seem to make sense of their harsh world, where they are oppressed and broken and can see absolutely no hope for themselves or their families, they start to turn to the afterlife for that hope, they start to turn to violence against who they think is to blame for their endless misery. In some cases families are getting reimbursed for these violent acts, an insentive amidst no other insentives...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, "Christians wouldn't do this." Never have done anyhting horrible like this in the history of Christianity, right? Bullshit.
Not all muslims are ready to strap a bomb on their person and blow up a few hundred civilians. Case in point, I have never seen a leader of the Arab world do this. I imagine it is an absolute rarity that members of their royal families do this. People who have hope for themselves do not often resort to this sort of extremism. I'm not saying these leaders aren't crazy, but they aren't directly suicidal either. Their level of extremism only slightly trumps that of the Dobsons and the Falwells of the world. These leaders have political agendas that may call for their people hating Americans, but I hardly think they'd rather trade it all for the destruction of our country.
The Christians we are most familiar with live in first world nations, where there is hope for most people. Even when their lives are shit, there is still hope to be found most of the time. To compare how our Christians behave to how their muslims behave is Apples to Oranges. Of course, continuing to support a war on Iraq that had nothing to do with 9/11 and has killed well over 100,000 innocent Iraqis is in my mind, hardly a pristine Christian example. So most Christians are armchair quarterbacks these days...that's hardly a complement.
And we are not above 'killem all' nationalism when we are attacked. Hit by Saudi terroists on 911? "lets kill some motherfucking iraqis." I heard on the radio this aniversary of 9/11 a radio jock saying that she didn't care what the hell we did that might have fed into dislike for us enough to blow up the two towers. She was simply happy we were hitting back at someone that hated us. And when they see their cities bombed and their family members killed or starving, and their meager livelihoods taken away, we don't expect them to say the same thing?
Where would such a ridiculous cycle end?
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Quote:Yes the guy who actually works for the military knows less about the defence situation than a guy who drinks beer for a living. You're delusional, and a coward, a stupid delusional coward who's too retarded to even realise when everyone is laughing at him. You're wrong, EVERYONE knows you're wrong, people on you're side of the fence know your wrong, the only person who hasn't clued up to it is you, you mental midget.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
citizen - you really are fucking pathetic. Like a parrot, you sqwak over and over that you've proven me wrong, when you've done nothing remotely of the sort. You posting of irrelevent quips about what the Nazis SAY vs what today's Jihadist really ARE DOING only shows you've got no clue what the hell you're talking about. Any reasonable person would be able to understand that, IN CONTEXT, the Jews of the 1920's and 30's posed no where near the threat to the Germans or Western Europe than the Islamic radicals do today. In fact, it's the holocaust deniars who say exactly what you say. Bet you're fond of being in that company, huh?
And why the fuck are you bringing up bible stories for ? ? Oh, that's right, since you have nothing to support your views, you'd thought it'd be cute to 'prove me wrong' and go back a few thousand yrs and show what bad asses the Jews REALLY were. ( Keyword - WERE ). Well, huckleberry, the rest of us are living in the 21st century, while your buddies, the Towel heads, are eager to return us to THEIR glory years, the 7th century. Again, you failed to prove me wrong. But then, you're damn good at failing.
My views on radical Islam are 100% accurate, you're just too much of a chicken shit coward to admit it. Your little Island tift w/ the Cathoics in N.Ireland has been a real tragedy, but it fails to compare to what is happening now, world wide, with radical Islam. Just put a sock in it and spare us all your whining.
Just admit you're wrong. Everyone knows it already. It won't hurt. Honest.
You know a friend said speaking to people like you is like trying to philosophies with quicksand. Really I disagree, since really what I'm doing is saying:
"You're sinking in quicksand you know."
To you're reply:
"No I'm not you idiot! Again your ASSumptions prove you know nothing about quicksand! I'm standing on dry land, you're the one in quicksand!" While I wander away and let you suffocate.
Whatever AU, as always you've proven yourself nothing more than a dim witted troglodyte with the critical thinking skills of a Baboon after an aborted head swap operation.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:Well obviously you are not Irish nor British. It's a very complex situation that few outside the groups involved understand, so they tend to simplify it into "British won't let them have their land back".
Originally posted by babywiththepower:
Citizen, I do take issue with something you said in one of your posts. You say you've lived under the threat of terrorism from Catholics simply because you are British. That's a misleading statement. You are under the threat of terrorist attacks from the Irish, whome happen to be Catholic, and not because you are British, but because your government has yet to give Ireland it's sovreignity.
First the violence stems directly from religion, it's mostly Catholic Republicans Vs Protestant Loyalists. It's as much religion as anything else, and as much about religion as Islamic terrorism. The violence in Ireland stems directly from religious conflict.
Quote:Sure it is. Firstly the majority of people living in Northern Ireland are LOYALISTS. The majority of people living in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK. It's the Loyalists country as much as it is the Republicans country, why are the Republicans so much more important than the Loyalists in your opinion?
It's amazing that Britain gives up most of it's Empire, including China, but for some reason find a way to justify keeping Ireland.
Quote:People living in the middle east have been on the constant receiving end of Western aggression and empire building have plenty reasons to feel they need to protect their existence. In comparison to what goes on in the Middle East the Catholic Republicans have had it easy.
The Catholics in Ireland are the minority and they were protecting their existance, it's a big difference than the Islamic Extremist reasons for killing us.
Quote:And the Real Irish Republican Army is still around and still has weapons. But that doesn't refute what I said, which was that I've lived my entire life under the spectre of terrorism and the vast majority came from Catholics. That's a true statement, 100% factual and you can not argue that it is not so.
Besides, the IRA has surrendered it's weapons in accordance with the Good Friday Agreement.
Quote:Islamic law also bans the killing of non-combatants, something the Bible firmly does not do.
There is a very vocal minority that is the pinicle of evil and violence. This is, after all, a religion who's holy book tells them to kill the 'infidel' which, I'm sad to say, is all of us.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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