Debate Over
POSTED BY: dreamtrove
UPDATED: Friday, September 1, 2006 00:38
VIEWED: 4120
PAGE 7 of 8
DT,
It's not that no one knew about stem cells back then. But there were issues. The first was that they didn't know much about differentitation - when it happened, how it happened (all at once or little by little), how much potential there was for going backwards. (There is STILL a lot they don't know. They used to think all of six months ago that skin stem cells could be used to repair heart tissue for example, but just recently found that the cells fused rather than differentiated into fxt'l tissue.) So pre 1998 unless you got cells very early you always had a mix of committed cells and stem cells and couldn't do meaningful research. And then they couldn't be kept alive and pluripotent in culture. Up till 1998 the only cells that could be successively cultured ad infinitum were cancer cells.
That's what made the 1998 breakthrough so meaningful. UNTIL 1998 NO STEM CELL RESEARCH WAS POSSIBLE.
PLEASE don't try to teach me about stem cells. I know a lot more about them than you do.
And the reason I called Unwrapped Dick-Whack is b/c he's an arrogant rabid ignorant ass. Like his master, Herr Bush.
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Dick-Whack
And your point is in looking even more ignorant and childish than before? Did you not read the part where a CLINTON appointee during CLINTON'S administration said NIH funding could be used for embryonic stem cell reserach. BUSH'S brilliant contribution was to limit federal funding ALREADY IN PLACE. 
A--HOLE.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Dick-Whack
And your point is in looking even more ignorant and childish than before? Did you not read the part where a CLINTON appointee during CLINTON'S administration said NIH funding could be used for embryonic stem cell reserach. BUSH'S brilliant contribution was to limit federal funding ALREADY IN PLACE.
Besides your infantile tirade of ad hominems, you're really not saying anything new here. Bush 1st spent $$ on ANY stem cell research of any kind, what so ever, by the Fed Gov't. That's a fact you just can't seem to wrap your brain around.
Callin' others names won't change the facts. Or haven't you figured that out yet ?
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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Quote:WE'RE talking about embryonic stem cell research, hello. There's no small nail, but since you evaluate all events on "How good can I make Bush look with this" I'm sure you think so.
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Then you'd be wrong.( shocker there, eh? ) Bush WAS responsible for this, and there's no denying it. Stem Cell research has NOTHING to do w/ being 'pro-life'. Only EMBRYONIC , and all Bush did was limit what the Fed could do in regards to funding He STILL didn't ban any research. That's the small nail which has you hung up on the issue. Bush DID fund research for Stem Cell research. Not Clinton. Get it ?
Be a man, for once, and admit this was ALL Bush.
I don't like Clinton anymore than Bush; I certainly, unlike you with Bush, have no interest in singing Clinton's praises. Bush enacted a crippled version of Clinton’s legislation. Get it? No I didn't think so. The funny thing is if positions had been reversed you'd be throwing your toys out of the pram about how no one recognises this was all Bush's doing.
Okay there’s no intelligent debate with you, you aren't interested or capable of it. It seemed like you were going to be a man for once and enter into an actual open dialog, which lasted for one whole post, just go back to your hero worship and leave me in peace, I want to talk to people, not sycophants.
Quote:This is simply priceless.
Callin' others names won't change the facts. Or haven't you figured that out yet ?
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Okay there’s no intelligent debate with you, you aren't interested or capable of it. It seemed like you were going to be a man for once and enter into an actual open dialog, which lasted for one whole post, just go back to your hero worship and leave me in peace, I want to talk to people, not sycophants.
How is it 'hero worship' when I state a FACT that Bush is the 1st President to authorize Fed funding for stem cell research?
You're hatin' on the wrong person, citizen.
People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss
" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "
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No one mentioned Bush, you took this as an opportunity to sing Bush's praises, like most threads you post on.
You repeated the spin that turns Bush's action from merely signing off a crippled version of someone else’s legislation as proof that he's such a great guy and supporter of science.
I pointed out the simple fact that it was Clinton's legislation, from Clinton's administration, and that Bush just happened to be the guy in the seat when it made it through, that the Clinton administration was prepared to fund this research in early 1999 and you say it's irrelevant.
It's not irrelevant, if Clinton’s administration hadn’t put together the legislation Bush wouldn't have cut it down to virtually nothing and signed it. He wouldn't have become the first president to start funding embryonic stem cell research if the Clinton legislation hadn't been put down in front of him.
Your spin is in suggesting it's all down to Bush when it is not, that is a FACT. It's called spin, it's called lie by omission you don't have to tell an untruth in order to lie, just select which truths you put out.
And don't give me this hating nonsense; you're spitting accusations of me not ‘ever being a man’ all over the place. I merely told you I want a debate with someone, not trade insults with a sycophant that goes into insult overdrive if anyone dares to mention that maybe Bush isn't god, which is so far about all you've done. I realise you don't realise its hero worship, but that's because he's your hero and you think it's all true and justified.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
PLEASE don't try to teach me about stem cells. I know a lot more about them than you do.
Rue,
See it's this sort of arrogant attitude. If you have credentials, post them. Are you a stem cell researcher? I find it unlikely that the rank and file of doctors knows more about them than I do. You don't know how much I know, there's sort of an assumption built in there. I'm not an expert in the issue, but so far you haven't posted anything I didn' know.
Quote:
And the reason I called Unwrapped Dick-Whack is b/c he's an arrogant rabid ignorant ass. Like his master, Herr Bush.
No offense, but he may not be alone.
BTW, I don't support his absurd position "Bush, hero of the stem cell world." That's like "Bush, peacemaker of the middle east."
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Hey DT,
I'm not comfortable posting too much identifying information out here.
I'm not a doctor but my educational and professional background is biology and medicine, with enough chemistry thrown in that that's what I now do for a living.
Embryonic tissue culture used to be a job in a university /research setting, now it's a a topic of interest I keep up with.
OOC, what's your background?
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Rue,
I actually don't think this forum calls for paranoia. A whole lot of us have posted enough for bin laden to track us down and blow us up, and yet nothing has happened.
As for me, I farm tomatoes. My degree is in history. I went to college for about 20 years, and took everything. My school didn't have much in bioengineering, we did some PCR on dna strands, worked with some cultures, but no create-an-organism type stuff, it's just a peripheral NY state school which is nothing like a peripheral CA state school. As for what I do for a living, currently I sell children's books, but careerwise I'm a programmer/database designer, though I've also done a fair amount of teaching.
You just can't know too much. When I was taking very ill with a debilitating condition that also made me insane (I suspect it's similar to what pirate news has) I saw 18 doctors, and talked to a dozen more, including a lot of experts, and eventually concluded that psychiatry is as 12 monkeys says, a religion. I had to go study neurochemistry and cure myself, which took me a couple of years. I figure there's not a lot out there that I can't handle, informationwise.
My interest in stem cells comes from the fact of that conversation nearly 30 years ago, and my sister who can't walk, and stem cells being really the only possible treatment that might work.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hero:Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
I wonder what reason the nut jobs will find for not using stem cells now?
Actually I kind of thought this would happen. I never understood why they couldn't harvest from unbilical cords either.
So here is my pro life, anti-science response to this latest development on this important issue:
Fine with me...if it don't hurt nobody (or any potential little nobody's out there) then go research all you can. Just no clones (except Jessica Alba, lets face it we all could use one of those).
H
I like how you said this and I think most people of the same pro-life sort (of which I am also a member) would agree, since the main complaint with stem cell research before was that it would hurt "potential little nobody's". So, I don't think too many people will be able to come up with a reason for opposition now. Who would oppose a harmless method of helping people? With any luck... that means all will be shiny with this issue now.
Credit for screencaps belongs to: http://still-flying.net/ and http://www.leavemethewhite.com/caps/index.php
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