Are we realy this gullible?

POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 01:53
VIEWED: 13731
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DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:32 PM

Thanks, Hero. That works.

I'm a librarian.

CANTTAKESKY

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 7:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:
I'm not convinced there was no al qaeda involvement at all

And I apologize if I gave the impression that they weren't involved at all. I don't know that. Perhaps I should say I question the extent of their involvement, if any.

I don't think Al-Qaeda perpetrated 9/11--that is not to say a small group of half-baked wannabes didn't take flight lessons with the hopes of crashing planes into the WTC and other targets. I am saying if it was really Al-Qaeda members on those planes, they could not have achieved it without some serious professional help. Without this help, the terrorist wannabes would have been stopped with normal, routine prevention measures such as enforcement of restricted airspace. Without this help, inexperienced pilots could not have hit their target of a narrow 200 ft wide building in a plane going 733 ft a sec. Without this help, I don't think the towers would have collapsed. So as far as I'm concerned, they may have tried, but they didn't make it succeed. Someone else did. That other party or parties is responsible.

Can't Take My Gorram Sky

CHRISISALL

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:02 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:

If it wasn't for those meddling kids...

BWAHAhahahahahahaha*sigh* BWAhahahahaha

Much needed guffaws Chrisisall

HERO

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:04 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by dreamtrove:

I'm a librarian.

You believe in wearing glasses, the orderly and mathmatical sorting of reading material, I.D. Cards, floor length skirts, and "sshh!"

You have my vote. Laura Bush for President on the Librarian ticket!

H

SIGNYM

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:13 PM

Quote:
I think what Hero and Rap can't understand is that we DO understand the threat- we're just not running around messing our pants because of it... it's not the possibility of death that troubles Hero and Rap, because there are plenty of risks in our lives... it's the whole idea that some people hate us SO MUCH that they see us as mortal enemy. And somewhere between the relentless fear-mongering and the cynicism that this breeds we have to find our own way to address the very real problem of terrorism.

You're displaying, in great selective manner, your moral outrage at the senseless taking of innocent lives via an insane cult of death. But folks planning to indiscriminantly murder 1000's of civilians for no other reason other than to murder 1000's of civilians..... meh, folks die every day. It's not 'fear mongering', it's called having a CONSCINCE

Wow, I guess I hit a nerve. You missed the part where I said we must address terrorism. I just want the fear dial turned down.

Rap, in my experience hate based in fear. You hate Muslims because you're terrified that they'll destroy our way of life. (Your own statements demonstrate your fear I'll prove it to you .... later) On the other end of this rope, I daresay that many Muslims hate the West from the very same fear. It's not an entirely unfounded fear, altho to be quite honest I think they have more to fear from us than the other way around.

The dangerous aspect of fear and hate is that people who essentially have nothing to fear from each other can be induced into total hysteria by simply mirroring each other's actions and upping the ante slightly each time.

Now here comes the kicker: THE LEADERS ARE NOT AFRAID LIKE WE ARE. Bush, Cheney, ObL, Olmert, Nasrallah use our common fear to climb even higher on our backs. Nasrallah points to Olmert, Olmert points to Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad points to Bush, Bush points to Nasrallah, and it goes round and round while we're all whipped up in a frenzy that does nobody (except our collective fearless leaders) any good.

---------------------------------
Reality sucks. Especially when it contradicts our cherished ideas.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:42 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:
Quote:
Originally posted by HKCavalier:
Which logical fallacy is that?
If you're too stupid to work it out YOURSELF why should I complete YOUR education for you, you pinhead.

YOU use ad hominims because YOU are too STUPID to let your lies stand on their own! YOU hate America with YOUR ASSumptions and terrorist LOVE.

You're a moron, and you'd never find ME stooping to the levels of Ad hominims!

Citizen, the adults are trying to have a conversation. Go play in your box.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

CITIZEN

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 8:47 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Citizen, the adults are trying to have a conversation. Go play in your box.

Yes they are, but you keep getting in the way with the ignorant rants. Now bed for you young man

.

Incidentally why are you replying to me and bypassing all the adults? It's because you haven't got an answer isn't it, your hoping to start a flame war so you don't need to conclusively prove you're wrong as usual aren't you.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:12 PM

Quote:
Wow, I guess I hit a nerve. You missed the part where I said we must address terrorism. I just want the fear dial turned down.

Rap, in my experience hate based in fear. You hate Muslims because you're terrified that they'll destroy our way of life. (Your own statements demonstrate your fear I'll prove it to you .... later) On the other end of this rope, I daresay that many Muslims hate the West from the very same fear. It's not an entirely unfounded fear, altho to be quite honest I think they have more to fear from us than the other way around.

The dangerous aspect of fear and hate is that people who essentially have nothing to fear from each other can be induced into total hysteria by simply mirroring each other's actions and upping the ante slightly each time.

Now here comes the kicker: THE LEADERS ARE NOT AFRAID LIKE WE ARE. Bush, Cheney, ObL, Olmert, Nasrallah use our common fear to climb even higher on our backs. Nasrallah points to Olmert, Olmert points to Ahmadinejad, Ahmadinejad points to Bush, Bush points to Nasrallah, and it goes round and round while we're all whipped up in a frenzy that does nobody (except our collective fearless leaders) any good.

Lets see if I can spell it out any clearer for you this time, because you're still not getting it. The Islamo-nutcases ( not ALL Muslims ) want not just to convert you, me and everyone else in the world, but they're willing to KILL us and even themselves to achieve their goal. What has got me so aggitated ( sorry, not scared, as you falsly paint it ) is this passive ignorance that so many are displaying. It's as if you're more afraid of the P.C. nazis than what the Islamo-terrorist have blatently stated they WILL do. Your naive description of all the leaders using the actions of each other is so disconnected with the CAUSE of all this.... Islamic Fundamentalism.

Now a kicker for YOU is that I do think there are PLENTY of things in Western culture which are destructive to society. There is a very real threat from Western thought that, intentionally or not, does potentially challenge the cultures found in the Mid-East. Whether it's Wal-Mart or Women's Rights, OUR way of life does challenge the control of the Theistic State. But it seems what's good for the goose isn't good for the gander. We allow muslims to freely practice their religion in the West. Do they reciprocate? Hell no. And rest assured, you and I might not agree as to what is good or bad for society, but I'll bet the house that what ever we think 'should' be acceptable, the Islmo-fascist would sooner cut our heads off than accept what freedoms WE have grown accustomed .

Nasrallah & Ahmadinejad have stated specifically that Israel should be wiped off the map. There's nothing remotely close that either Olmert or Bush have said in comparison in regards to Iran or Hezbollah. So there's nothing to your quid pro quo merry go round w/ the specific leaders.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

DREAMTROVE

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 9:41 PM

CTTS,

We're in total agreement then. Hmph. No room to argue. Drat.

Hero,

Laura can't win. She's too chappaquiddicky.

Quote:
The Islamo-nutcases ( not ALL Muslims )

Ah Progress!

Now this is what I like to see. (not kidding)

Quote:
Auraptor:

Nasrallah & Ahmadinejad have stated specifically that Israel should be wiped off the map.

Nah, I don't think this is reality, maybe some other Earth. But our press mistranslated these guys all the time. Nasrallah is obviously Jesus of Nazareth returned, and Ahmadinejad is way too moderate to call for the destruction of Israel. He calls for Israel out of Palestine.

Be wary of what you read. 9/10 of it may be lies. Afterall, who is translating Ahmadinejad for you? MSM. Who owns MSM? Israel. Go figure.

AURAPTOR

Wednesday, August 16, 2006 10:13 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by antimason:
Auraptor,

i hate to call you out, but i thoroughly disagree with you about 9/11, the WTC, and the entire war on terror scenario.

for starters, you need to understand..i am not a "liberal", simply because i disagree with Bush and his agenda. i realize its hard for one to wrap their head around the concept that humans are free-thinking beings, who share common truths..but its something you should consider.

in order to believe the government, you have to assume a number of things which have been proven false:

-the government knew nothing of the attacks planned, and did everything possible to stop them.

False - First, there are thousands of potential threats, coming from all manner of sources, some crack-pots, others serious, and others unknown. Second, there were those in the Gov't ( which is a giagantic bureaucracy )who thought there were warning signs a plenty, but partly because of the WALL between the CIA and FBI ( thank you Amy Gorelick and the Clinton Administration ), the info was muddled. And for 3 1/2 yrs AFTER OBL decalred war on the West, no attacks succeeded.

Quote:

-our government had no prior envolvement with al-qaeda, and previously did everything within their power in the past to detain BinLaden.

We both know that's not true. OBL was wanted for, among other things, the attacks on the 2 US Embassy bombings. President Clinton had a chance to GET OBL, but opted not to - TWICE!

Quote:
-NORAD and FAA were justified in their lack of response, and its perfectly normal to lose track of 4 planes at once, and customery to send military craft from the farthest possible bases to respond to incidents.

You're talking about 2 seperate operations, the FAA definatly working w/ out-dated equipment, thrown into a chaotic, previously unrehersed situation. Sure, there was some confusion, but grounding every single plane as quickly as they did was quite an accomplishment. I'm of the opinion that 1 or more planes carrying terrorist landed during this time, and thwarted another attack.

Quote:
-there is no such thing as PNAC, or the Downing stree memos, nor a prior agenda to invade Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran and Syria prior to 9/11.

Those things have been taken WILDLY out of context. Fact is, Bill Clinton, not Bush, made it official US policy to push for regime change in Iraq.

Quote:
- its just a coincidence that: the CIA was running an identical simulation to the 9/11 attacks, the very same morning; that Bushs bro Marvin headed the WTC security company; that Fema just happened to arrive on 9/10; that rumors on the street warned employees not to show up that day; that CIA insider trading on wall street took place the morning of; the firemen and eye witnesses just "heard" explosions, and believed that they could put the fires out; its normal for 3 steel framed buildings to collapse, by fire, within hours of burning, at FREE FALL SPEEDS.

Internet rumors, kooky conspiracies and wild assumptions. I wish I could spend time on each whacko point, but there's just too many, so I'll stick to ONE.

Your ignorant claim that 3 buildings came down ONLY by fire omits a mountain of factors. WTC buildings 1 & 2 were built w/ unconventional means... — instead of bracing the buildings corner-to-corner or using internal walls, the towers were essentially hollow steel tubes surrounding a strong central core. Both towers were built to withstand an impact of a large airliner..and they did! But what WASN'T figured into the equation was the inferno which followed. The impact of a fully loaded 767( traveling at 300-400mph ? ) and fire knocked the thin insulation off of the girders and exposed them to heat. After that, it was only a matter of time. The buildings were doomed. The enclosed area became a furnace, fueld by the contents with in. Time + heat + the weight of the planes acted to weaken the inside of the buildings. Once that starts, gravity takes over. If there's nothing to support

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