There is no God.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2025 05:01
VIEWED: 30440
PAGE 24 of 25
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Erm hey that's some pretty schizophrenic stuff there! So with you your right hand really doesn't know what you left hand is doing
Originally posted by RugBug:
Um, yes. They are seperate entities. They, however, are not absolutes.
What I meant is your right and left sides aren't separate beings, they are parts of the same being.
So you got me. But I will say that you got me when you switched from the concepts of right and left to the physicality of right and left. Yes, my right and left sides are part of the same being. But, that doesn't make my right hand my left, or my left hand my right. My right hand is my right hand and nothing you do will make it my left hand. (The relativity of right and left is determined by perspective...and leads to all the confusion of "your right or mine?")
But in all that, we are talking man. God is not just some Super Man. He is god. He is not bound by the rules that bind us ('cause you know, it would be rule cool if I could create matter or know all)
Quote:Sort of. From our narrow singular view we could see something as evil but does that mean that from god’s infinite point of view that thing is also evil? Is the concept of good and evil being relative all that strange? A serial killer kills five people and they are evil, a soldier kills five people and they are a hero.
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
Which may be where you're trying to go with this? Is that what you've been trying to say? That good and evil are relative?
No, it's not all that strange. But that relativity can't be applied to all things.
Whether or not God can use 'evil' for his purpose is different that saying that God is evil.
Quote:And they were kicked out. How can they be said to have free will if the moment they exercise it they are punished?
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
Really? If originally free will was the choice to follow God or not follow him, how was free will not present in the Garden of Eden? They followed, then decided not to.
There are consequences for actions. God never said there wasn't. That doesn't negate the fact that the decision was of their own volition.
Let's see, Garden of Eden was a place of communion/relationship with perfect God. Perfect God cannot be in the presence of imperfection. But Adam/Eve had the choice of imperfection and took God up on it. God had to remove them from his presence, thus they were expelled from the Garden. That's consequence. If they had chosen otherwise, the consequence would have been continued relationship with God in the Garden.
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
So, from there:
Coin=God
One side=good
Other side=evil
Can you please explain the meaning you intended that I so obviously missed.
Ahh, poorly stated on my part, that evil isn't necessarily evil, that things we see as evil may have a purpose that in the long run improves the human condition and is good, though I'm finding my thoughts hard to put in writing at the moment...
Whether or not God can use 'evil' for his purpose is different that saying that God is evil or causes evil. That good can come from evil doesn't turn evil to good.
Quote:
Originally posted by citizen:Quote:Erm, since when?
Originally posted by RugBug:
Now, if God as defined by Judaism and Christianity (sorry, can't add Islam as that is NOT the same god)
Since always? My understanding of Allah is that he is not the God and father of Jesus (who's deity is denied). Also, Allah is totally removed from men, is responsible for evil as well as for good, and is not the god who love the world enough to sacrifice his only son. Allah is completely distant from man. He also requires acts to prove faith and there is never assu
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
Originally posted by DukKati:
Its all there in the Bible...King James Version...
not the watered down nicey nice new world versions.
And DukKati: Let's just say that there are
many more accurate and academic translations than the King James Version. NRS and Oxford amoung them....
***************
"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Citizen,
I picked that particular example because I didn't want to get into any very personal ones.
Still avoiding personal ones, I will present a hypothetical one instead, based on many composites of real ones: a child is born with a neurological disability. This disability causes physical and neurological stress. (When one's brain is faulty, it makes every second of every day stressful in the full sense of the word.) The stress forms the child into a fractious personality. The parents, at wits end, devolve into abusive parents. Typically the mother abuses that child who requires extraordinary amounts of care, while the father abuses that child who seems rebellious.
Here we have one slightly physically damaged child, and three people morally damaged as a result (where moral damage is loss of empathy and compassion.)
Excluding the karmic cycle (as provable to me as god - which is - not at all), the only lesson I get from this is "heaven and earth are not humane".
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Quote:
You believe what you like, absolutely! But what I mean by universal truth is something that everyone is going to agree with. ie - the sky is blue. OK, some people are colorblind or blind, but for most folks who see, this is the Truth. The universal truth.
Existentialism states that there are no universal truths. For something to be a universal truth EVERYONE has to believe it. So, in your example, even the blind have to believe that the sky is blue (which, I think, would be rather difficult, as they may not have any notion of color).
Can't somebody just start a new thread? It's really not that hard. Please?
---
Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Originally posted by RugBug:
Quote:
misbehavin: to say that the roots are the same, does not mean it is the same. Let's take a FF example. Joss created Mal; Defines who he is, gives him shape. Then a fic writer takes that character and not only adds to it, but changes the very core motivations, actions, desires, etc. Is it still Mal? Or has a new character, that looks like Mal and is born of the same roots, been created. If you and I saw this new Mal on Firefly, we would've cried foul. Similar roots does not mean same.
Islam may not recognize the divinity of Christ, but then, as you noted, neither does Judaism. Unless, of course, they're Messianic Jews. But the God of Islam, to a Muslim, is very much the creator God found in the book of Genesis. In much the same way that the Devil is the Luciferian figure of the Old Testament for them as well. So, yes the roots are important, because it is the varying interpretations of God and Allah that provides the distinction, not the roots.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hows this:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=23012
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Here's my problem with religion: there's no evidence to support it; other than people's word. Unfortunately, that's not good enough. This type of thing is so remarkbable, so important, that you can't just take people's word for it; which is what you're doing when you believe the Bible is true.
I grant there probably was a Jesus of Nazareth who was a philosopher/religious type. But i don't think he came back from the dead. And i don't think he turned water into wine. And you can't say i shouldn't because you can't point me to any real evidence other than someone's say-so. And say-so has no place in rational investigation toward the truth.
Now, if someone can give me real evidence there is a God, then that's wonderful; and i'd accept there was one (tentatively, until i find some other, simpler explanation). But until then, i don't think God exists, for as Laplace said to Napoleon when asked why he didn't include God in his treatise on celestial mechanics: "I found no need of that particular hypothesis."
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Reply here:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=23012&m=358831#358831
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
Hey everyone,
Thanks for an interseting, annoying, amusing, and always stimulating discussion. I just received the third volume of Taken today, via NetFlix, so it's time to chill 
and watch some alien abductions. Besides, all this God talk is making my little ape brain hurt. Take care, and enjoy your weekend everyone.
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME
and while Britbongistan gets overun by those who believe in their Arabia pedophile Moongod
After 50 Years, Penn and Teller are Returning to Where it All Began in Minnesota
https://kroc.com/penn-and-teller-minnesota-renaissance-festival/
NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | PERMALINK | TOP | HOME