There is no God.

POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2025 05:01
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Originally posted by Tristan:
Alright, I wanted to stay out of this, I really did. I am not angered, nor disgusted, nor anything. I have a question reagarding the "free will" concept. This will be based on a few assumptions, so please bear with me for a bit; this is something that has plagued me, and maybe I can get an intelligent answer from the Christians in here.
Free will is god granting humans a choice in every aspect of their lives. This is completely unlike pre-destination, where everything is writ, nothing you do can change your destiny. Assuming free will exists, and humans do bad things that are blamed on this concept, from where does it originate? According to some, god created all things. This means everything, am I right? This would include thought and deed; all possible outcomes to everything a human is faced with has to have been created by god. If this is in fact true, there is no "free will"; humans just have a pool of pre-made decisions to draw from...good or evil, they have been created by god. Any arguements that "satan has a hand in it, too" will lead back to the fact that god created everything...including satan. If this is not so, then god is not the creator he is put up to be, and is merely another player in things.

Ok, flame away, for I am sure I will get a few of those. For those Christians in here interested in answering, I thank you in advance. I am an odd duck in that I can get along with almost anyone despite their beliefs (or lack of), as long as those beliefs are not foisted upon me.
Thanks for listening.

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its a good question, and im not sure how well anyone can answer it; given that there are scientific theories about mutli-universes, multi-dimensions, infinite realities etc.

im wondering if Satan is an energy that exists in defiance of natural law; for example, animals are programmed instinctually to survive and coexist in a balance. im not saying they dont exceed this balance, but an animal cannot be anything other then what it was designed as.

Man however has free will, and we are the sole species which chooses a course beyond what our natural environments have provided us; we can choose to be or do whatever we want, and have created artificial environments which evolve with our state of consciousness.

the bible says God created Satan, and he was "perfect in all his ways until iniquity was found in him", so clearly God created, or allowed a force contrary to what i would explain as natural, or in harmony with God.

i think understanding how carma works would be helpfull. if we knew to what extent our lives are influenced, then we would know to what degree our lives are pre-planned. if God has seen the beginning already, and so knows the choices we will make, then he(it) is with us in the present, with the knowledge of the future. maybe, like a computer, reality is constantly being updated with data based on patterns constantly evolving.

i honostly dont know...but im sure theres a theologian out there somewhere whos contemplated the thought, while still remaining rooted in his faith. if you get a good explanation, let me know...

but alternatively, what theories can we prove scientifically that includes all of this? God cant be proven, but he cant be disproven;so to what degree do we understand the universe, and is it enough to draw conslusions?

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Kaneman-its important to keep in mind that slavery as we know it today is in many ways different then it was in the BC era. someone who had nothing, could choose to become a slave as a means of survival and security; it wasnt neccessarily people held captive against their will, which is the unfornate reality of African slavery in the Americas.

and human sacrifices were usually offerings to gods, which can be traced to the fallen angels of Gen. 6, who came to earth during Mans early beginnings on earth. these beings were percieved as gods because of appearances and abilities, and taught destructive heresies and other corruptive knowledge. the book of Enoch is a better source for that story then Genesis, which just gives an overview of the whole incident. i believe the polytheistic mythologies of the worlds can be traced to this appearance of angelic beings...so sacrifices dont disprove the credibility of our ancestors, they confirm it.

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Originally posted by Tristan:
Alright, I wanted to stay out of this, I really did. I am not angered, nor disgusted, nor anything. I have a question reagarding the "free will" concept. This will be based on a few assumptions, so please bear with me for a bit; this is something that has plagued me, and maybe I can get an intelligent answer from the Christians in here.
Free will is god granting humans a choice in every aspect of their lives. This is completely unlike pre-destination, where everything is writ, nothing you do can change your destiny. Assuming free will exists, and humans do bad things that are blamed on this concept, from where does it originate? According to some, god created all things. This means everything, am I right? This would include thought and deed; all possible outcomes to everything a human is faced with has to have been created by god. If this is in fact true, there is no "free will"; humans just have a pool of pre-made decisions to draw from...good or evil, they have been created by god. Any arguements that "satan has a hand in it, too" will lead back to the fact that god created everything...including satan. If this is not so, then god is not the creator he is put up to be, and is merely another player in things.

Ok, flame away, for I am sure I will get a few of those. For those Christians in here interested in answering, I thank you in advance. I am an odd duck in that I can get along with almost anyone despite their beliefs (or lack of), as long as those beliefs are not foisted upon me.
Thanks for listening.

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Don't let the thought of free will plague you...Its humanities equivalent of infinity, Why are we here?, What came first the chicken or the egg? Can you make something from nothing? How can you have a big bang without ingredients? etc....Why ask why? No one can answer this. It comes down to personal belief. And why assume god grants free will? Why not human evolution? And why ask Christians?...one of the newest religions on the planet. Ask a Jew or a pagan.

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Thanks for the answers so far. Seems it is a question that a few others have had, too. Good to know.
Kaneman, the question doen't plague me, as I am not a believer...it was just a thought I had since I was old enough to think about religion.
Again, I have no problem with people who live by faith...any faith...so long as it is not foisted upon me. Most of my life experience has been in living in a Christian society, and from everything I have read, seen, and heard (I am a well-read and relatively well-traveled individual) about people's lives in other societies, I am happy to be where I am.


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My 2c

God is evil. Yhwh that is. Read his book. He commits open genocide and then celebrates in the slaughter, and then he does it again, and kills the animals and trees, etc. He kills, he tortures, he kills again. It's a solid book of the stuff.

Chris, only Bhudda? I beg to differ, I think there's a Chinese librarian who had a point or two.

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Tat Moh had some good ideas himself.

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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"Quote:
Originally posted by nanite1018:
I also think everyone has to believe in some ideal, i just wish people believed in more rational and backed-by-evidence ideals.
Is that an ideal you believe in: a world where only rational and evidence-based ideals exist? And is this ideal itself rational and evidence-based?

I like vanilla ice cream. I wished everybody else also likes vanilla ice cream. It's an ideal that keeps me going in tough times.

Is that rational? Is it evidence-based? See, my point is that what you wish for, what you need to believe in, what keeps you going, DOESN'T HAVE to be rational and evidence based. Your inspiration can be whatever you want, even if it seems silly to other people. It's not for others to judge.

Science, BTW, is not religion's competitor. They are not mutually exclusive. There are plenty of scientists who are devoutly religious. I'm a scientist myself. My husband is a scientist. God is very important to both of us.

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"Maybe she's a lazy hooker. They can't all have hearts of gold and good work ethics." -- Jaye in Wonderfalls"

When i said that, i meant i wish people were more rational. I believe in a better world, and i can't see a reason why someone wouldn't. I can't understand how someone could hate someone just because they are of a different skin color or religion. Those things i can't understand, and will never understand, becuase they don't make any sense to me whatsoever.

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Originally posted by christhecynic:

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Originally posted by nanite1018:
Chris, you may very well not exist. How do i know? I have no proof.

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Obviously but my point is that you don't have evidence either, a point you clearly disagree with. I probably shouldn't side track us by explaining why but since I brought it up I'll give it at least one shot.

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But you claim to be someone, you don't appear to be lying,

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with you so far.

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and all of the evidence (the background, the posts, everything) backs the hypothesis that you are an actual person.

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And that’s where you lose me.

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Now I have two hypotheses, one that you are an individual, the other that you are a creation, an imaginary person created by someone else.

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This seems to me a lot like god, so maybe talking about this isn't as off topic as I thought. Then again it could also sound like aliens.

There are two possibilities:
I am/god is/aliens are an actual individual/actual individuals the other is that I am/god is/aliens are a creation, an imaginary entity/entities created by someone else.

In all three cases I have a long series of actions attributed to the thing in question, and in all three cases there are other explanations for those things ranging from hoax to the planet Venus.

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Occam's Razor dictates that if you have two hypotheses that both explain the data equally well than the one with fewer assumptions is most likely true.

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In fact it makes no statement about which one is most likely true, all that it does say is, "Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem," (though sometimes the spelling varies as I've also seen, "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate," and a couple of others) which is very different. I mean when you read what it actually says it is talking about what should be done when creating a theory, it doesn't even mention the truth or accuracy of said theory.

Then we move from that to saying the theory that is more in line with the idea that we don't multiply entities sine neccesitate is the one that science will accept. It does not say the other is wrong because if there were a way to know the other was wrong we wouldn't need the thing to make the decision. It does not even say the other is more likely to be wrong.

I bring this up because a lot of people get this confused, Occam's Razor is a way of choosing which theory is more scientific, not which theory is more likely to be correct. It is in no way related to truth.

This has no bearing on the rest of the conversation, but I couldn't just sit back and let you go on having an incorrect version of the razor, I'd feel bad about myself for not correcting a friend before an asshole came along and insulted you about it.

Einstein actually felt the need to point out that the simplest thing is not necessarily the most correct when he said about his theory of Relativity, "In my opinion the theory here is the logically simplest relativistic field theory that is at all possible. But this does not mean that nature might not obey a more complex theory." He, of course, went on to say, "In my view, such more complicated systems and their combinations should be considered only if there exist physical-empirical reasons to do so."

That is what the Razor is all about, more complex theories might be true, and the Razor does not say they stand any less of a chance of being true, but even so they will be rejected until there is reason to accept them. The difference between acceptance and truth is important, at least from my perspective.

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Now, what does that mean for this case? Well theory 1 has one assumption: there's someone who is christhecynic out in the world, and no one else is involved with the posts, you represent one person. The other requires that there be someone else, who desires to be able to say things without people knowing it was them AND that they created an elaborate back-story and POV and style of writing that appears to come from

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