There is no God.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2025 05:01
VIEWED: 30440
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Here's my 2 plat on being an athiest.
Frankly, I don't know if God is real or not, or if the rest of the world is in fact believing in a non-existant diety (in various forms). However, I do know that for whatever reason, I cannot believe in said diety, I cannot accept it. Yet because I don't know if he is real, there is no reason to begrudge people for leaning one way where my brain forces me to lean the other. And oftentimes I'd prefer to believe, for that whole community, for the 'fatherly/motherly' safety feelings, etc... but I can't. So that's my less than rosy picture of athiesm.
Just because we can't prove God exists scientifically does not mean that we can disprove that he exists. It's sorta up for grabs at this point. It's up to science to quantify and then disprove God, and up to God to do some of those miracles he was into back in the day, and nip sciencei in the bud.
Whichever comes first.
"But, these strong women characters?"
"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon
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Quote:Surely this is proof that god does exist?
Cruithne3753:
Here's the proof there is no God:-
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Carroll_%28lottery_winner%29
Now why is my luck never in?
Otherwise how would he make a deal with the Devil?
CitizenIsA Devils Advocate
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Geekmafia:
The whole "I don't believe in god and am therefore smarter than you" thing among some atheists has always struck me as quite pretentious, it's bit like saying i'm right and you can never prove me wrong.
As an Atheist, I feel compelled to point out that there's a flip side to that coin: "The whole 'I believe in God, and am therefore smarter than you' thing among some Christians has always struck me as pretentious, it's a bit like saying I'm right and you can never prove me wrong." Also, it's a good deal more prevalent. And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.
I think that Christians need to realize that the majority of the planet does not share their religious beliefs. They are Atheist, or they are Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or one of over 200 other religions currently practiced in the world. In my opinion people of all religions, especially the three Abrahamic religions, need to dial the rhetoric down some. Coexistence and a mutual respect for the beliefs of others is absolutely necessary.
"The only thing that will redeem mankind is cooperation."
-Bertrand Russell
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
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Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
"The whole 'I believe in God, and am therefore smarter than you' thing among some Christians has always struck me as pretentious, it's a bit like saying I'm right and you can never prove me wrong." Also, it's a good deal more prevalent. And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.
You make a good point. However, if your right, then my blind faith isn't really gonna hurt eitherof us in the long run. If I'm right your really screwed (says so in the Bible, Revelations 20:15 "Thou art screwed.").
H
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Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:Quote:
Originally posted by Geekmafia:
The whole "I don't believe in god and am therefore smarter than you" thing among some atheists has always struck me as quite pretentious, it's bit like saying i'm right and you can never prove me wrong.
As an Atheist, I feel compelled to point out that there's a flip side to that coin: "The whole 'I believe in God, and am therefore smarter than you' thing among some Christians has always struck me as pretentious, it's a bit like saying I'm right and you can never prove me wrong." Also, it's a good deal more prevalent. And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.
And you just lend credence to the quoted poster's point. "Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith." That right there is an I'm-smarter-than-you-so-there comment.
Then you go on to say that the Christian attitude is more prevalent but in the next paragraph say that Christianity is a minor world religion.
I will tell you, from personal experience, I face a lot of derision once people learn that I am a Christian. When it came up in conversation with one particular friend, she told me not only that she was "Disappointed because she thought I was an intelligent person," but also that she lost respect for me. Fact of the matter is that many people view faith (especially Christianity) as a personal crutch for the weak-minded. People couldn't possibly be intelligent, well-spoken, well-read or followers of science and still be a Christian.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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I don't believe I ever said your faith would hurt me; however, I'll say it now, it just might. Throughout history people of faith have persecuted nonbelievers. We have a 'true believer' in the White House right now, and I think it's fair to say that his policies both foreign and doemstic are strongly driven by his supposed religious beliefs. Take stem cells for example. His faith is part of the reason he's denying funding that might very well lead to our ability to cure some truly awful diseases and injuries. Why block this? Because his interpretation of when life begins, which he concludes through his faith, tells him that a microscopic cell in a Petri dish has a soul and is more important than the actual living breathing human who's suffering with the disease. So yes, his faith may actually end up hurting me and even you.
As for being wrong, I may well be. The most famous argument for believing something for which you have no evidence is Pascal's Wager, which is what you outlined, "if your right, then my blind faith isn't really gonna hurt eitherof us in the long run. If I'm right your really screwed (says so in the Bible, Revelations 20:15 "Thou art screwed.")."
Pascal claimed that it is rational to be a Christian even though the evidence available makes the position quite improbable. Because if by chance Christianity turns out to be true, then you win everlasting salvation. While if it is false—if there is no God and no Heaven or Hell—then you are no worse off than the correct Atheist. On the other hand, if you refuse to believe, you will go to Hell if you are wrong and be no better off if you are right than a Christian who is wrong. An Atheist can never win and he might lose badly. But a Christian just might win, and he can never lose badly. In other words, no matter how improbable the truth of Christianity, it's always the best bet.
There is nothing sanctimonious about this. On the contrary, it is rather fallacious. I wonder if someone who had somehow managed to make himself love Jesus on the basis of this calculation would find that love reciprocated. But it is a matter of little concern, since Pascal's argument is not all it is cracked up to be anyway.
Note first that what is rational to believe has here been separated from what you have any reason to think true. This is the whole point of the argument. Pascal's Wager is thus irrelevant when the question is whether or not God exists. Pascal's Wager, when used by Christians, attempts to show that Christianity is the best regardless of its truth.
However, does the argument work on its own terms? It does not show Christianity to be the best bet. By the method of Pascal's Wager, any other doctrine that attaches everlasting bliss to agreement and everlasting agony to disagreement does equally well. The choice is not, as Pascal tacitly assumes, between Christianity and Atheism alone. The choice must be made between all the different religions according to which adherents go to Heaven while everyone else goes to Hell, Islam, for example. Pascal provides no grounds for being a Christian rather than a Muslim. The choice between them is a 50:50 bet.
Once you see that Pascal's wager supports equally not only Christianity, nor even all established religions, but all possible Heaven and Hell religions, the game is up. For infinitely many such religions are possible. Which will you choose? Choose any one of them and the chance that you have made the best bet is not 50:50 (i.e., 1 in 2), it's one in infinity; this religion versus all the infinitely many other possible Heaven and Hell religions.
Each possible religion including Christianity, is but one ticket in a lottery with infinitely many tickets. Each bet has an equal chance of being best: i.e., an infinitesimal chance. And an infinitesimal chance is no chance at all. Without some evidence, every religion is an equally hopeless bet. And I'm not willing to live my life according to a bunch of people who tell me they have the only answer, and then fail to offer me any proof. If I am wrong,
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check out Whimsical's story and then tell me that!Or better yet go hold a baby
I choose to rise instead of fall- U2
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Originally posted by RugBug:
Quote:
And you just lend credence to the quoted poster's point. "Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith." That right there is an I'm-smarter-than-you-so-there comment.
I'm not saying that I'm smarter, but that what I believe is grounded in scientific fact. It's not an article of faith, which by it's very nature is not a fact.
Quote:
Then you go on to say that the Christian attitude is more prevalent but in the next paragraph say that Christianity is a minor world religion.
A couple of points. Christianity is a missionary religion, thus their attitude is more dominiant as they are continuously seeking converts. Secondly, I meant this attitude is more prevalent in the United States where the overwhelming majority of the population is Christian; consequently, it is more dominant, visible, noticeable etc. And I never said Christianity was a minor religion. Obviously, there are well over a billion practicing Christians; however, there are over six billion people living on this planet, and most of them are not Christian. That doesn't mean that Christianity is not one of the largest religions (last I checked they were in the top three: Islam, Christianity, and Hinduism), but rather there are numerous other religions that when added together have more adherents than Christianity.
Quote:
I will tell you, from personal experience, I face a lot of derision once people learn that I am a Christian. When it came up in conversation with one particular friend, she told me not only that she was "Disappointed because she thought I was an intelligent person," but also that she lost respect for me. Fact of the matter is that many people view faith (especially Christianity) as a personal crutch for the weak-minded. People couldn't possibly be intelligent, well-spoken, well-read or followers of science and still be a Christian.
As for respect for the beliefs of others, here's what I said before, "Coexistence and a mutual respect for the beliefs of others is absolutely necessary." I hope this clarifies my point.
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
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Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
Originally posted by RugBug:Quote:
And you just lend credence to the quoted poster's point. "Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith." That right there is an I'm-smarter-than-you-so-there comment.
I'm not saying that I'm smarter, but that what I believe is grounded in scientific fact. It's not an article of faith, which by it's very nature is not a fact.
The problem is that the assertion that Atheism is based in scientific fact implies that you are more logical and thus "smarter."
Also, I have a problem with the statement that Atheism is grounded in scientific fact. The belief that there is no God cannot be proven through science anymore than the belief that there is a God.
Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
A couple of points. Christianity is a missionary religion, thus their attitude is more dominiant as they are continuously seeking converts.
Well, hopefully in a religion that says non-believers are going to hell (Islam falls under this heading: Jehovah's Witness believe non-followers will die out and Mormons...not sure their belief on hell, but they sure do want to convert you) the practitioners would want to "convert" their friends and loved ones. It may be odious to you that someone wants to tell you of Jesus' love, but isn't it just as odious if your most cherished loved ones believe you're going to hell but do nothing about it?
Quote:
Originally posted by misbehaven:
Secondly, I meant this attitude is more prevalent in the United States where the overwhelming majority of the population is Christian; consequently, it is more dominant, visible, noticeable etc.
I apologize, I was thinking mainly of Protestant sects. Catholicism significantly raises the numbers of Christians not only in the U.S., but in the world as well.
I do think it is interesting that I, as a Christian, feel I am in the minority and you, as an Atheist, feel that the Christian mindset is more prevalent.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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Religions ranked by size (estimates vary but these numbers are as good as any):
# Christianity: 2.1 billion
# Islam: 1.3 billion
# Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
# Hinduism: 900 million
# Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
# Buddhism: 376 million
# primal-indigenous: 300 million
# African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
# Sikhism: 23 million
# Juche: 19 million
# Spiritism: 15 million
# Judaism: 14 million
# Baha'i: 7 million
# Jainism: 4.2 million
# Shinto: 4 million
# Cao Dai: 4 million
# Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
# Tenrikyo: 2 million
# Neo-Paganism: 1 million
# Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
# Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
# Scientology: 500 thousand
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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