There is no God.
POSTED BY: oldenglanddry
UPDATED: Friday, May 9, 2025 05:01
VIEWED: 30440
PAGE 10 of 25
Citizen,
Does whatever site you pulled that from break down Catholics vs. Protestants?
Just to be clear, I'm not saying the numbers are incorrect. But that in my experience, throughout my life, I have always been in the minority as a Christian.
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"My feelings are changeable but intense" Anya (season 7 Buffy)
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The problem is that the assertion that Atheism is based in scientific fact implies that you are more logical and thus "smarter." Also, I have a problem with the statement that Atheism is grounded in scientific fact. The belief that there is no God cannot be proven through science anymore than the belief that there is a God.
I don't personally believe that logic equates to intelligence. Some of the most brilliant people in the world have been people of faith. And as I said before, I certainly don't think that I'm more intelligent becuase I don't believe in God; nevertheless, Atheism remains grounded, for most of us, largely in the realm of scientific evidence that has long been established as true. To be certain, science can't prove that God doesn't exist, but Christianity can't prove that he does. If it could, it wouldn't have to be taken on faith.
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I do think it is interesting that I, as a Christian, feel I am in the minority and you, as an Atheist, feel that the Christian mindset is more prevalent.
This is intriguing. I don't understand how, as a Christian, you could feel persecuted when Christians compromise the majority of the U.S. population, and are effectively one of the most powerful political constituencies in this country. Can you imagine anyone saying, "I don't believe in God, and I want to be your next President of the United States." That person would never be elected. I think I'm safe in saying that if anyone in the country is in the minority, it's Atheists. That said, it's an interesting discussion.
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
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Originally posted by misbehaven:
Each possible religion including Christianity, is but one ticket in a lottery with infinitely many tickets. Each bet has an equal chance of being best: i.e., an infinitesimal chance.
My Dad, no philosopher he, says that you can't win the lottery if you don't play. Your well stated argument leaves only one sure loser...those who choose not to play.
And you can cite all the facts and figures you want. I have absolute definitive and legal proof that God exists. Its eyewitness testimony...my own, other people. And being a lawyer we always like to cite the busload of nuns witnessing something as the perfect unimpeachable eyewitnesses...
H
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In 1997 there were 42,513,059 Protestants and 60,018,436 Roman Catholics in the United States.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
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Originally posted by misbehaven:
[B And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.
B]
state these facts please.
We are The Forsaken - We aim to burn! and we don't need no stinkin levels!
one of the Forsaken TM
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My Dad, no philosopher he, says that you can't win the lottery if you don't play. Your well stated argument leaves only one sure loser...those who choose not to play.
Indeed, it's true that you can't win the lottery if you don't play; however, it's also been said that, "A lottery is a tax on stupidity". Please don't take that the wrong way, becuase I don't mean it to sound like I'm saying people of faith are unintelligent. But at the end of the day, your chances of winning the world's jackpot on religions remains minuscule.
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And you can cite all the facts and figures you want. I have absolute definitive and legal proof that God exists. Its eyewitness testimony...my own, other people. And being a lawyer we always like to cite the busload of nuns witnessing something as the perfect unimpeachable eyewitnesses...
I won't argue against your faith, it is what it is. As for the nuns, I would hardly say that nuns, priests, monks, ministers, reverends etc. are unimpeachable. I'm sorry, but the Church lost all crediblity with me when they started abusing children and then actively working to cover it up, rather than turning the offenders over to the authorities to be prosecuted.
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
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state these facts please.
I think we all know the world is billions of years old, not thousands. It was created over billions of years, not in seven days. I think it safe to say man wasn't created from a pile of dirt, nor woman from rib. Do I really need to go on here?
Besides I'm not trying to convert anyone to Atheism, so I really don't think the burden of proof is on me to illustrate that God doesn't exist. I think it should be firmly placed on those who believe he does, since they expect me to devout my life to him.
Morbid and creepifying I got no problem with, so long as you do it quiet like.
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Whether or not there is a god, or gods, I have a problem with a fair number of religions. They first state that god(s) is(are) the mysterious source(s) of life, and death. Then the believers say they have god(s) all figured out.
How can god(s) be both mysterious and powerful, but figured out and able to be played like a fiddle by people?
As to the lottery question, I once asked a co-worker if he wanted to go in on a group lottery purchase. I said "if you don't play, for sure you can't win". He said "if I don't play, for sure I can't lose."
What could you lose by following a religion? If you live your life as you would have without religion, you lose nothing. OTOH, could you be said to be following that religion?
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Originally posted by misbehaven:
[B And Atheists back up their claims with scientific facts, not blind faith.
B]
state these facts please.
Just to make a distinction: it's not about facts, it's about evidence.
According to science, it is almost as important that a thing be disproven or proven. As this is not the case with a being that supercedes natural law, the very thing which science uses to determine everything, God's existence is somewhat of a moot point. I'm not saying there is or isn't a God; I'm just saying the argument goes nowhere because of the supernatural aspect.
As for the facts, there's this: the Big Bang and evolution. These two would not be theories (in science speak, a theory is a generally accepted hypothesis, not just mere conjecture) if scientists didn't put in countless hours of research and study.
Big Bang links:
http://liftoff.msfc.nasa.gov/academy/universe/b_bang.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang
http://www.big-bang-theory.com/
Evolution links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://www.talkorigins.org/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/
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Go to http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/ and vote Firefly!
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Originally posted by RugBug:
The problem is that the assertion that Atheism is based in scientific fact implies that you are more logical and thus "smarter."
Take care, or I'll start screaming about bias against science geeks!
I have to go with MISBEHAVEN and disgree with this. I am an atheist and a scientist, and I'm very good with the logic. In fact, I have a Big Damn Degree from a Big Damn School. But let me tell you - I have some major problems thinking about non-science things. Life skills? Not so much. I'm absolutely useless at many "trivial" things! And I do try, I try very hard.
Yeah - degree or not, I'm just as stupid as anyone out there - trust me! It's such a gross generalization to say logical people are smart. So not true. I can tell you about some of the dopes I knew in my Big Damn School. And I can tell you about some scientific geniuses who are also devoutly religious.
Anyway... smart or no, I do base my atheism on logic, and a lot of it has to do with looking at religion. So much of what I see preached by the varying churches seems to show that humans - well, the humans in power - have built this "God" in their own image, and not the other way around.
Angry God? Jealous God? Male God? Older and white skinned? hmmmm.
This is not to say I'm not spiritual. The more I learn about science, the more awed I am about the universe we live in. (Keeping in mind that science is also our creation, and nature is always more complicated and messy than any equations we use to approximate it.)
So, my primary argument against most organized religions - the ones I experience most in the US, for example - is that they make God too small. Why would a force that can create the system of itsy bitsy particles that make quarks that make protons and neutrons and electrons that combine just so to make the elements that combine to form water and rock and my skin and everything else and our planet and on and on ...
...be interested in whether two men want to be in love and have sex?
Sooo petty. Religion encourages a lot of good things, but it's a shame that so many people believe in an Ultimate Being who is this shallow.
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I'm the president. I don't need to listen.
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