Opinion on Iraq has changed recently.

POSTED BY: kaneman
UPDATED: Friday, July 28, 2006 17:54
VIEWED: 1743
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CAUSAL

Thursday, July 27, 2006 11:43 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Penguin:
I agree completely that there will be a civil war as soon as we leave. There may even be one while we're there. Then what do we do? Who's side do we back?

We were idiots to invade (yes, invade) a country and think we could bring it democracy. Hell, democracy barely works here in the US with only 300+ years of history. How arrogant of us to believe that a county with thousands of years of history and thousands of years of feuding factions could be made to accept democracy!

Stupidity starts at the top...

While I do agree that it was a terrible idea to invade, please note that the Japanese had all the same things (years of history, feuding factions) and they took to democracy. Jury's still out on Iraq, but people also said it would never work in Japan. I realize it's not a one-to-one correspondence (as some will no doubt angrily point out), but the point remains.

________________________________________________________________________
I wish I had a magical wish-granting plank.

FREMDFIRMA

Thursday, July 27, 2006 11:45 PM

Again, you can't "give" people freedom at the point of a gun, they don't want it, will not keep it, and will resent you for upsetting the established order.

The only way effectively create or depose a government in lasting fashion is for the locals themselves to take up arms and spill enough blood to MAKE it happen, like we did in 1776.

Honestly, it looks to me like a lot of em are doin that right about now, yep indeedy, we surely got them interested in putting together a new government all right - and they damned sure DO NOT want us, or our little string puppets to be part of it, golly-gee-whiz, what a surprise..

I notice when these fools say "Stay the Course" they don't even KNOW what the course is, if there is a course, and what it is supposed to be... Duurrrrr....

Oh yeah, that's a plan - I say we get the hell out of there, now, while we still CAN extract without massive casualties, before some second coming of Saladin rises up and mops the floor with us.

-Frem.

PS. (Afghanistan too, I put my face in my hands and groaned when we stuck our noses into that, did we learn NOTHING from what they did to the Soviets ??!)

KANEMAN

Thursday, July 27, 2006 11:57 PM

I agree "Stay the course" is a ridiculous mantra. When there is no "course". If it were a "course" we are failing that "course"...are GPA went down. Afganistan, I think is different it seems to be going quite well considering the time.

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, July 28, 2006 12:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

From what I read permanent bases is not an option...I think we have already stated we will leave..Question becomes when?

Not so

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0930/p17s02-cogn.html

They won't come out and say it for political reasons, but anything put out by the " think tanks " who really come out with much of policy.... it will happen

I read somewhere that Iraqi government... well the appointed by the US Iraqi government had already signed a deal to that effect. Historicly once your in, it takes much effort to get rid of you... the Japanese recently paid you off to relocate some bases, and Cuba... think they really want you there ?

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

STINKINGROSE

Friday, July 28, 2006 2:25 AM

It's just International Brotherhood Week over there, isn't it?

KANEMAN

Friday, July 28, 2006 6:03 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

From what I read permanent bases is not an option...I think we have already stated we will leave..Question becomes when?

Not so

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0930/p17s02-cogn.html

They won't come out and say it for political reasons, but anything put out by the " think tanks " who really come out with much of policy.... it will happen

I read somewhere that Iraqi government... well the appointed by the US Iraqi government had already signed a deal to that effect. Historicly once your in, it takes much effort to get rid of you... the Japanese recently paid you off to relocate some bases, and Cuba... think they really want you there ?

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

Hey stop with the "you you you" stuff. Yes it is true when America makes a deal with a country it holds that country to it. Lose your standing army? Okanowa. Must I go on? Cuba..I'm in...South Korea?..I'm in...Germany,England,Francussy,Spain,Canada etc!!!....I'm in...Iraq? don't think I should be in.

GINOBIFFARONI

Friday, July 28, 2006 6:15 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:
Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
Quote:
Originally posted by kaneman:

From what I read permanent bases is not an option...I think we have already stated we will leave..Question becomes when?

Not so

http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0930/p17s02-cogn.html

They won't come out and say it for political reasons, but anything put out by the " think tanks " who really come out with much of policy.... it will happen

I read somewhere that Iraqi government... well the appointed by the US Iraqi government had already signed a deal to that effect. Historicly once your in, it takes much effort to get rid of you... the Japanese recently paid you off to relocate some bases, and Cuba... think they really want you there ?

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

Hey stop with the "you you you" stuff. Yes it is true when America makes a deal with a country it holds that country to it. Lose your standing army? Okanowa. Must I go on? Cuba..I'm in...South Korea?..I'm in...Germany,England,Francussy,Spain,Canada etc!!!....I'm in...Iraq? don't think I should be in.

The point I'm trying to make is that what do the Japenese have to do to get you to leave.... start up the war again ?

or Cuba.... invade a country, install a dictator, then have him sign a treaty " in perpetuity "

only a war will get them out

And how many " deals " has America go back on when they decide they don't like how it is going ?

" Fighting them at their own game
Murder for freedom the stab in the back
Women and children and cowards attack

Run to the hills run for your lives "

http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/ironmaiden/liveafterdeath.html#12

KANEMAN

Friday, July 28, 2006 6:26 AM

Short answer.....America protects just about every "free" country in the world. If you don't believe that you are delusional. I've said it before ..might as well say it again ...if you do not like America's taking of the free world's reigns..take the UN (funded by the US) and stick it where the sun doesn't shine...Bye Bye NYC here comes? What? I may disagree on some American foreign policy, but for the most part thank god for the.....UUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSSSSSSOFAAAAAAAAAAA!

HERO

Friday, July 28, 2006 1:22 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by GinoBiffaroni:
The point I'm trying to make is that what do the Japenese have to do to get you to leave.... start up the war again ?

Japan does not want us to leave, neither does South Korea. Our troops are a check on Chinese and North Korean aggression.

If we left Japan would be forced to invest tens of billions in a military buildup to secure its interests and security. To do otherwise would invite aggressive militaristic neighbors to fill the vaccum.

H

FREMDFIRMA

Friday, July 28, 2006 4:09 PM

Fine by me.

Let em do it on their own dime for once, cause I am sick of paying for all this imperial lunacy.

-Frem

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