Hey! The system works yet again!

POSTED BY: Geezer
UPDATED: Thursday, July 6, 2006 13:49
VIEWED: 3845
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CITIZEN

Friday, June 30, 2006 1:51 AM

Please, as if British rule was worse than George Bush.

The taxes were lower to.

And King George was by far less insane than your current administration and had less power.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

SOUPCATCHER

Friday, June 30, 2006 1:56 AM

* reaches deeeeeep into the bag of dirty tricks *

But. But. But. I like my straight teeth.

CITIZEN

Friday, June 30, 2006 1:59 AM

*does the same*
Straight teeth for a high IQ? Seems like a bad trade to me...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

SOUPCATCHER

Friday, June 30, 2006 2:01 AM

And nothing starts the day off right like a pot of coffee.

GEEZER

Friday, June 30, 2006 2:09 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SergeantX:

Mostly agree here Geezer, but since most of us aren't in positions to get the Supreme Court's attention, engaging in public discussion seems a worthwhile alternative.

Looking at the 2006 Supreme Court decisions, many of them aren't what you'd think of as big deals. But they are Constitutional questions.

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/05slipopinion.html

I really don't have a problem with public discussion, either, if it's carried on in a reasonably civil manner.

Note the comments of Rue and SignyM prior to this post. This is a prime example of the "bitching, moaning, and personal insults" to which I was referring. On the other hand, I wish Soupcatcher would play more often, because he is always civil, and makes some good points. I have to admit that, when provoked, I may get a bit rude every once in a while, but I try to respect everyones' opinions.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

CITIZEN

Friday, June 30, 2006 2:09 AM

Coffee is bad for you, besides all the Coffee you drink is Itallian, Mocha Locha I think I'm gonna Choka

But if you want to drink the drink of a nation of people who wear tight trousers, play with themselves in public and build cars with five reverse gears...

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

GEEZER

Friday, June 30, 2006 2:12 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SoupCatcher:
And nothing starts the day off right like a pot of coffee.

We have concord!

Coffee makes the world go around, the world go around, the world go around.
Coffee makes the world go around, when it is freshly ground. It makes the world go 'round.

"Keep the Shiny side up"

GEEZER

Friday, June 30, 2006 2:27 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by SignyM:
Geezer, I thoroughly disagree. DO you really think you can change a system by using the system to change it?

Yes. Slaves are free. Women can own property and vote. Everyone has equal rights to jobs. Accommodation must be made for the handicapped. Hey, the Alien and Sedition Acts are no longer in effect. Slowly, and with many fits and starts, for 230 years, the system works.

What would you put in its place? Your will?

"Keep the Shiny side up"

SIGNYM

Friday, June 30, 2006 5:16 AM

Quote:
Slaves are free. Women can own property and vote. Everyone has equal rights to jobs. Accommodation must be made for the handicapped. Hey, the Alien and Sedition Acts are no longer in effect. Slowly, and with many fits and starts, for 230 years, the system works.

No. The changes came about because of protests, marches, sit-ins, riots, and even warfare. Because people got pissed off, talked to their neighbors, stood on soapboxes (or now on the internet) bitching and bellyaching. Because people fought, and many died. Harriet Tubman. Elizabeth Caddy Stanton. Eugene Debbs. Rosa Parks. The Greensboro Four. And, in the other corner... the Confederate Army. Pinkerton Security. Governor Wallace. Most local PDs.

WTF? You think things changed because some old white guys decided one day to change things??? "The system" didn't change itself, it responded to pressure from people. For some strange reason, you think that it's unseemly for people to get involved in changing things when that is the only way things change.

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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

SIGNYM

Friday, June 30, 2006 5:43 AM

And on a related note: I think the Founding Fathers had a brilliant idea. But as Ben Franklin said when asked if they had devised a monarchy or a republic: "A republic. If you can keep it".
There is a fatal flaw underlying "democracy", and that is it depends more than any other system on the active involvement of "the people" to keep it working as it was designed to work. Complacency leads quickly to corruption, secrecy, suppression, and all of the thingsthat a democracy is NOT. The problem is that people... well, they don't give a shit about their rights, or the system, or their government most of the time. As long as they have a job, family and some friends, a roof over their head, they're okay. The people who are really fired up about this thing called democracy probably represent less than 15% of the USA population. The rest are with Big Brother.

And the other thing is that even tho the Founding Fathers had a brilliant idea of pitting each part of government against the others in a self-interested fashion, they hadn't counted the corruption of all three branches of government by the same agent: money.

Unless people have an immediate stake in their government they won't act. Their rights need to involve a lot of the stuff that really counts to them: jobs, safety, a future for their kids. And they need the same access to government that the well-heeled have on those very issues.

How does one change the system to take it out from the hands of the weatlhy? And I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that this is the point on which you'll see the most resistance to change.

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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

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