Prison inmates committing suicide now an act of warfare on the US
POSTED BY: Khyron
UPDATED: Friday, June 23, 2006 10:01
VIEWED: 9568
PAGE 9 of 11
Quote:Iraq is such a mess, I'd honestly need a lot more first-hand knowledge to make that kind of determination on what to do...I'm generally a tidy chap, not good at cleaning up other's spills.
Originally posted by Geezer:
Any suggestions about Iraq, Guantanamo, Afghaistan, the war on terror, etc?
Close Gitmo permanently, get off Cuban soil, & lift embargo, btw.
Put POW's in a real camp on U.S. soil.
Call off so-called 'War on Terror', it's silly and jingoistic and trite. Maintain armoured presence at the request of local leaders, and kill anyone w/a SAM or rocket launcher.
Put money into intel on possible terrorist plots, and take away money from the 'War on Psuedophederine', and other non-issue BS in this country. Who cares if a H.S. student has a buzz from cold medicine, if people are DYING for real because our assets are misplaced?
Fire everybody in government at any level that dismissed the theories on crashing planes into buildings, and make them work at Wendy's!!
Chrisisall
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Those committing asymmetric warfare will be dealt with severely !
Damn their cleverness - they escaped punishment.
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Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Those committing asymmetric warfare will be dealt with severely !
Damn their cleverness - they escaped punishment.
Sigh. So the whole "Nacho Liberal" tag-team is back together again.
"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"
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Now I resent this, the administration being constantly misquoted. Don't you know by now - it's "If you're not with us, you're with the terrorists!"
Quote:
Originally posted by SimonWho:
If you're not for us, you're against us. Bring them on. Mission accomplished.
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Should I have put a smiley face just so you would know IT'S A JOKE ! ?
Quote:
Originally posted by Geezer:Quote:
Originally posted by rue:
Those committing asymmetric warfare will be dealt with severely !
Damn their cleverness - they escaped punishment.
Sigh. So the whole "Nacho Liberal" tag-team is back together again.
"If Darwin ain't Happy,
Ain't Nobody Happy"
Dude, get over yourself.
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Quote:Torture and camps where bad people are 'concentrated' are okay, because we don't chop their heads off or gas them in the showers? Please.
Originally posted by Geezer:
You seem to be suggesting that just because the US does not consider some prisoners as covered under the Geneva Conventions, there are no restrictions at all on their treatment. This is, of course, not so, and you probably know that, even if you don't admit it. Rules for treatment of prisoners at Gitmo have been in the media several times.
You seem to be suggesting that it's okay because the US isn't as bad as a bunch of Terrorists. This is, of course, not so.
Quote:*rolls eyes*
Now, now. I did, after all, ask first.
Nope, I'm sure they still would, they just wouldn't be able to say look at what the Americans do. You wouldn't have Muslims around the world looking at America, which on the one hand says "we're your friend" and on the other locks in many cases civilians up without trial or evidence and has a tendency to be a might trigger happy around the same unarmed civilians.
Basically the coalition is the one talking about belief in life freedom and justice, and denying those things on a whim. Yeah the Terrorist are doing the same thing but their talking about killing the infidels. Basically they're living up to what they say are they're goals and ideals, we are not.
Quote:Please. The difference is they kill their prisoners, Gitmo leaves the prisoners to do it to themselves.
And once again...if the Iraqi insurgents were treating their prisoners like we treat the ones at Gitmo, that would be a fair comparison. They don't. You know this. You seem to have no problem with it. Why is that?
My problem is that the "land of the free" is perfectly happy to deny freedom and justice on a whim. But hey it's okay because it only done to the baddies.
How come you don't have problem with torture (as long as it's Americans doing the torturing)?
Quote:Yeah, dirty Liberals. Anyone would think they were real people who deserve an opinion.
Sigh. So the whole "Nacho Liberal" tag-team is back together again.
More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.
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Quote:"Now you're abusing sarcasm."
Originally posted by Geezer:
Sigh. So the whole "Nacho Liberal" tag-team is back together again.
Chrisisall Summers
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Quote:
Originally posted by Khyron:
Quality post as usual, Amiton. Just one point of contention for me:Quote:
Originally posted by Amiton:
The most glaring one to me is that if you're playing war and trying to be nice at the same time then you're going to lose, and you're going to lose ugly.
In a conventional war, I agree, unless the 'nice' participant state is also vastly superior (we'll leave aside the question for now of whether the US is vastly superior). However, this isn't a conventional war, it's been made into a war of principles and ideals, at least by the propaganda machine after it turned out there were no WMDs, maybe even a bit before that. It's a war of 'freedom, peace and respect for human life' vs 'terror, evil and disregard for human life'. In this case, one of the sides has to play nice, otherwise it has a real danger of being seen as becoming what it's fighting.
Other people can occasionally be useful, especially as minions. I want lots of minions.
Duly noted. And while the concept behind the war is thoroughly retarded in terms of fighting an ideal, it is still real people using real munitions to inflict harm with malice on another group of people. That's the war I was talking about.
We're in a bigger pile of crap than just throwing money into the appeasement pit of fighting an ideal, however. For one, while we're not actually stepping up on the entire Muslim world, there is an appearance that we are, and until somebody figures out how to fix that then we are truly pissing into the wind so to speak.
There's a parallel problem in that we can't *freaking tell* who our enemy is. That equates to not only having everyone on edge because "the good guys" don't know who we're supposed to be ready to shoot if necessary, but they also easily infiltrate the army and police forces. I'm going to ignore the rehiring of oppositiion forces into those groups on purpose.
There's a lot of grass roots support for the insurgency as well. It can be as small as the talking heads say it is, but that's still big enough to house, hide, misdirect, and offer alibis for the people we're after. Bad business, that.
Oh yeah, and about that grassroots support...we have no way to get a hold of them. Even if we had access to their homes and information networks, it would be propaganda wars. It's like someone that wholeheartedly believes what PirateNews spews...there's a conspiracy in every shadow, and if you're looking for it that hard then it becomes impossible to not see it. We're either never going to get around that little snag, or there *will* be war crimes tribunals over that, because they would have to be summarily put to genocide for that idea to go away entirely. What's that? Circular logic and a self-feeding cycle? Oh yeah.
I just wish I had some way to get a clear picture. Sadly, though, I just don't think that there is a clear picture to see. This whole war on terror business is a cluster, and we're the ones that are going to end up humped at the end of the day.
Amiton.
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Let me get back to the original point of the thread. The Pentagram considers suicide an act of asymmetric warfare. After that kind of statement, can you believe ANYTHING they say??? 
I mean, that's worthy of Kafka and "Memoirs Found in a Bathtub". But not to worry! 
I'm sure Geezer will find a way to defend-misdirect-trivialize-ignore the whole issue!
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Oh, wait.... he already did.
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That kind of Pentagram statement just drives the insurgents into more of a frenzy. That's not surprising since it drives me into a frenzy too. Here we have a group of people who have been held for years with no charges. Many of them (as documented by the FBI) were tied in stress positions for 18 hours at a time, and according to some of the released detainees were water-boarded. No wonder we can't release them! The stories they might tell!
When some of them tried a hunger strike, they were forced-fed with (roughly inserted and removed) naso-gastric tubes. Talk about feeling like you have no way out. Suicide starts to look like a reasonable alternative.
So- how do you fight a "War on Terror"? Not by using terrorist tactics, that's for damn sure. And not by invading a nation of essentially uninvolved people either. Think about it- Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11 and no WMD. Iraqis had no reason to hate us... then. But now... well, that's a different story.
Do we really think we're going to win a "War on Terror" by setting up permanent military bases in Iraq, deconstructing and "privatizing" their economy, and creating a theocracy? Not bloody likely!
We need to separate insurgents from terrorists. Right now, they have a common enemy- us. Split Iraq in three. Let the Sunnis, Kurds and Shiites take care of their own security. That way nobody feels that they're at the mercy of anyone. Give them each their own elections. Throw the Sunnis a bone- pay them off with lots of international aid; it's a lot cheaper than war. Give them something to work for instead of fighting against.
Once Iraq is split in three it becomes less of a tempting target. Give each section a different external security guarantor that's NOT US. Iran can handle southern Iraq, Russia might want northern Iraq, and Saudi Arabia can take care of central Iraq.
STOP funding permanent USA military bases in Iraq. Let the Iraqis decide on their own business models- not just a carbon-copy of Bremmer's pillaging. Give them the reins to their own government for crying out loud. They'll be so busy trying to make things work they won't have time to get involved with foreign meddlers!
Once we stop making Iraq a point of contention then we can REALLY focus on the "War on Terror" which in point of fact has nothing to do with Iraq.
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Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.
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