Angel seasons 3 and 4; What went wrong? (spoil away)
POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 08:12
VIEWED: 14331
PAGE 3 of 6
Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
Kennedy does say in one ep (can't remember which) that she's probably too old to be called anyway, so that takes her out of the 15-17 age range. Also, she could order drinks, so I have always taken her to be at least 21, as I think I was intended to.
I don't know... maybe. On the ordering drinks thing, how many times did that happen? The only one I remember was her sipping something on their date in the ep where Willow turned into Warren, but can we be sure it was something with alcohol? The Scoobies were going to the Bronze since they were high-school sophomores, so we know that most of their regular crowd is made up of kids too young to drink, so most of what they serve has to be non-alcoholic. And on the too-old-to-be-called issue, that could be interpreted to be just about anything. Buffy was 15, and Faith was probably 15 or 16. In Kennedy's mind, even 16 or 17 might be "over-the-hill" in this case.
I just think back to the episode where Buffy took them to Willy's. Spike makes some crack about them not blending in very well, and Rona (man, what a bitch she was) answered back with "We're a bunch of 15-year-olds in a demon bar--how much blending did you expect us to do?" I think there were four of them on that trip, including Kennedy, and while maybe all four weren't exactly 15, I don't think she'd make that crack, referring to the whole group, if one of the four was 21.
But this is getting away from the original topic of the thread. Shutting up now.
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Quote:
Originally posted by Groosalugg:
But this is getting away from the original topic of the thread. Shutting up now.
No, no, no. Don't shut up. I'm bored and need distraction. I can't be expected to work on a day like today.
You've given me some homework. I need to go scan me some Season 7 for Kennedy's age.
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I guess im one of the few people who agrees with Joss with the fact that season 4 our favorite after season 5 now. Personally i like all of twist and the entire story line. Plus it had some pretty sweet actions scenes. I know cordy was weird in that season, but she was the big twist giving birth to a power that be that wanted to create a perfect happy world i think thats some good writing. But i do tend to like some weird shit.
Season 3 is probably my least favorite, but i still think its a good season just not as good as seasons 1 and 2.
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Groosalugg, I couldn't come up with anything to support other than I already posted to support my theory that Kennedy is older. Amanda does mention being 17, and I assume Kennedy is older than her, but there's that funny thing about assuming. 
As for Season 4 of Angel being better than Season 7 of BtVS. No way, IMHO. I listed my favorite eps from Season 3-4 of Angel and Season 6-7 of Buffy and BtVS came out on top. S6 had 13 or 14 eps that I consider "good or better." Even S7 had 8 or 9. I only came up with 13 total for both season 3 and 4 of Angel.
But then again, I've always been a Buffy fan first...at least until I saw Firefly. Angel was secondary and the only reason I started watching it was because I needed more Buffyverse and the show had ended.
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Angel S3:
I think S3 suffers slightly from having poorer standalones to pad the arc. In fact, in the first half of the season I think Billy, Lullaby and Birthday are the only truly great episodes. After Provider, however, things pick up big time. As others have mentioned, I have no problem with Connor in S3, in fact I think A New World is one of the best episodes of the season, but his character as portrayed here is quite far removed from what we see in S4. Cordelia is...off in the latter stages, which is a shame because the final moments of Tomorrow would have been even better with her intact (even though I think another big mistake of the season is Angel/Cordy). Anyone else wish Groo had made a comeback? :(
Angel S4:
Deep Down was a pretty good opener, even if it did have the new not-so-improved Connor on show. After that the season begins to slide into all flash no substance territory with (essentially redundant) pseudo-X-man Gwen showing up and the introduction of the Beast, who must be ME's fourth consecutive invulnerable villain (and they don't stop there...). The show hits a new low with Slouching Towards Bethlehem and Supersymmetry - the former because it's just plain bad, the latter because it mangles canon without a good enough story to justify it.
Spin The Bottle is a mildly amusing breather before Rain Of Fire brings a whole new meaning to the word UNHOLY. Follow that up with a zombie survival horror episode and hte season's in the toilet before it's even halfway through.
Next comes the Angelus sub-arc with it's uber-tenuous justification for his return. Angelus then proceeds to spout some of the worst threatening dialogue ever written and does essentially zero damage.
I was excited for Faith's return, but even those episodes were lacking (not least because Faith was more than a little Pod herself...). Can someone explain to me why Orpheus is so great?
Inside Out totally misses the point of what made Skip such a good character by promptly assassinating him and then...well...assassinating him.
I'm one of the few who think S4 actually took a turn for the better with Jasmine's introduction. Although necessarily hampered by the fact the episodes are the tail end of a shambolic arc, Shiny Happy People to Home holds together quite well in my mind. Unfortunately, this is due in no small part to the fact that Cordy spends these episodes in a coma. I miss S1 :(
Final analysis:
S3: Not as good as 1/2, but still up there.
S4: Train. Wreck.
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I thought season 3 was amazing, it absolutely blew me away. All the Wesley stuff was fantastic, I really loved the introduction of Fred, I even loved all the Conner stuff and Holtz was possibly my favourite villain of the series.
Season 4 started well, (except for Conner change from confused teenager into stroppy lovesick teenager) loved all the beast/angelus stuff but by the end it just made no sense and was a disspointment.
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http://www.fireflyfans.net/sunroomitem.asp?i=8267
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Season three is pretty cool, I gotta say. For whatever reason, pregnant Darla annoys me to no end, but I'm willing to blame that on some sort of personal quirk. Overall, good season.
I pretty much have the opposite feeling about Season 4 as most of you. I don't like the start of the season, especially with Cordy being a higher power... the scenes where we see her surrounded by a bright glow are just so so so cheesy. Anyway, I enjoy the Beast bit to a certain extent, but I don't like it when things become so connected that I can't distinguish one episode from another. Not that I want it to be entirely episodic, but I also don't want it to be a six-or-seven hour long movie (sort of). Anyway, I thought the season got better with Jasmine. At first, it's annoying, but especially when they defeat her and suddenly the world FREAKS OUT, I think it's just good old fashioned fun, with some nice questions raised (is it really so bad for her to be ruler, and all that).
So, I enjoy both greatly, three more than four though. And I really liked the Jasmine stuff.
EDIT: Sorry, but I also thought I would mention that I'm in love with Fred, particularly throughout season three. I also think one of the best season four episodes is the one with her physics professor guy... yeah. Not just best of season four, but best of the series. Just so much awesomeness.
HONKS
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Quote:
Originally posted by WTE:
EDIT: Sorry, but I also thought I would mention that I'm in love with Fred, particularly throughout season three. I also think one of the best season four episodes is the one with her physics professor guy... yeah. Not just best of season four, but best of the series. Just so much awesomeness.
I hated that ep. Nothing to do with Fred, of course, more to do with the story overwriting existing canon. At the end of S2, the gang works out that Fred ended up in Pylea because she read a mystical book aloud, and in fact they use this information to get home. Now we're supposed to believe that this professor guy sent her there because he was jealous of her? Lame.
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I dont know were to put this and if someone already said this then sorry but everyone is having ago at the jasmine story arc but thats because they didnt intend on it at all but cordilia got pregant in real life and they ahd to ruch and change the story if i udnerstand rightly cordilia wanted to leave the series and thats why she was evil and was going to stay the main bad guy story arc. At least thats what i heard ( i cant prove it though).
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