Angel seasons 3 and 4; What went wrong? (spoil away)

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 08:12
VIEWED: 14331
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CHRISISALL

Monday, May 22, 2006 8:52 PM

If you think the seasons went in a wrong direction- then how?
If you think they were fine- then why?

Rant or praise: your choice.

Curious Forsaken Chrisisall

RUGBUG

Monday, May 22, 2006 9:00 PM

For me, it was Connor. And Cordy. And Connor and Cordy.

I'm not even sure I need to go into it any further than that.

CHRISISALL

Monday, May 22, 2006 9:05 PM

From what I read about that, I can only say that it must have sounded good at the story discussions....

Twisted Chrisisall

RUGBUG

Monday, May 22, 2006 9:29 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by chrisisall:
From what I read about that, I can only say that it must have sounded good at the story discussions....

Not sure how that could've sounded good. It's just wrong. Angel was supposedly in love with Cordy (which I wasn't to happy about, either, but I could've lived with it) and she with him. She sleeps with(not only sleeps with, but "de-flowers") his son? Nasty.

And Jasmine? Blech. One reason I took so long to watch Firefly was because it had 'that weird Jasmine chick' in it. (Didn't much like Nathan on Buffy, either...but I wasn't suppose to like him...I've since changed my mind about Caleb...but not Jasmine).

I did LOVE dark Wesley. I was equally torn between missing bumbling, love-sick puppy Wes and loving dark, sexy, tortured Wes.

Hrmmm...what else? I block much of Season 3 & 4 out. Maybe other people's comments will open the floodgates of ickiness.

SOULQUAKE

Monday, May 22, 2006 11:19 PM

Connor being in the series ruined a lot of it for me >_< I couldn't stand him. Just to throw in another opinion, my husband couldn't stand him either :p

That said, we both loved the series as a whole :)

---
"Sun came out, and I walked on my feet and heard with my ears. I ate the bits, the bits stayed down, and I work. I function like I'm a girl. I hate it because I know it'll go away."

ANOTHERFIREFLYFAN

Monday, May 22, 2006 11:50 PM

Ok, so there were some bad things. BUT!!! I would like to point out that there was a lot of good too:

Evil Angelus. 'Nuff said.

And Faith. She's awesome.

In fact, I'd say that overall these were terrific, if a little flawed, seasons. I didn't like Cordy/Connor either... in fact I always found Connor annoying (and they eventually wrote him off the show altogether), but there are at least valid reasons given. Cordy was not in control of herself, Jasmine was.

Kinda sad though, cause the character had developed so well through the third season, changing much from the selfish brat she used to be. And then... they ruined Cordy. (But I keep telling myself, it's not really her).

Keep flying

EMBERS

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:30 AM

it is hard to rant or praise...because I just couldn't get that caught up in any of it...

I know I'll get some people mad at me: but I don't think Charisma Carpenter could really play outside of her 'bitchy Cordy' range... Saint Cordelia was a HUGE mistake... and then in the 4th Season, when she got pregnant in RL she was just phoning it in.

Gina Torres as Jasmine really salvaged the end of that story arc, but it was such a confusing mess getting to there....

I could understand the whole idea of Connor, and you could see that he was wonderful in the 2 episodes where we see him in Angel's 5th season... so the actor was capable....

Basically I think they always had a little trouble with the show Angel anyway, it really started to click with Season 5 because of the whole 'belly of the beast' theme of running Wolfram & Hart.

IMO Buffy was just always the more exciting show, with clearer themes and stronger characters.

And then of course Firefly eclipsed even that!

WHISPER

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 12:56 AM

I think you will find season 3 to be on par with the other seasons- it's a personal favorite of mine. The episode "Lullaby" was outstanding. It's still all the characters we love with the addition of Fred.

Season 4 is where most people have their problem and i can understand why. I hated the Connor/Cordy thing to but I think we were supposed to. The writers were going for the vomit feeling, and they got it. The whole season was very dark and angsty. I thought it had some good arcs in it as well. I loved Jasmine- the idea of the dark underbelly to any utopian society and our heros ruining world peace was great.
S4 is my least favorite season but only due to it's depressingness (is that a word?).

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AURAPTOR

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 1:43 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by RugBug:
For me, it was Connor. And Cordy. And Connor and Cordy.

I'm not even sure I need to go into it any further than that.

I'd agree with only one tiny addition. EVIL Cordy.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

GROOSALUGG

Tuesday, May 23, 2006 3:19 AM

What went wrong with season 3? Basically... nothing. IMO, S3 comes in barely behind S5 as the best season ever. As a nemesis (in this case, "bad guy" doesn't really apply), they don't come much better in the Buffy/Angelverse than Holtz, played brilliantly by Keith Szarabajka. And for character development of all the main cast, you'd be hard-pressed to find a season on either show that matched it. Angel, Wes, Gunn, Fred, Cordy... they all had big things that their characters went thru, that made each a deeper and richer character at the end of it. It also had a tight, concise season-long arc, something that the ME writers would struggle with ever after (even in the standout S5--most eps are standalones, but I dare you to try to make sense of the

Select to view spoiler:

Lindesy/Eve

plot). And it had flashbacks, and I love me some flashbacks.

As far as coming up with a negative thing about the year, I'd say that, aside from "Waiting in the Wings" (yay, Summer!), there are really no single standout episodes. It's more of just an overall level of quality that flows smoothly from one to the next, with "Provider" (ep 12) as the only one I'd consider kind of a stinker.

And on the issue of Connor: as brutally annoying as he is in S4, I don't find him hard to take at all in S3. The teenaged version is only around for 3 episodes, anyway, and at that point the writers hadn't yet given him the lobotomy that left him as the most gullible tool on the planet.

S4... There was a lot to like. Angelus, Faith, Willow, some great action sequences, and "Orpheus", one of the 4 or 5 best Angel episodes ever. Even as hard to watch as Cordy and Connor were (not only as a couple--just in general), they were only one portion of the storyline, and the first 2/3 of the year were great, in spite of them.

The problem came when the Jasmine arc started, which turned out to have no relevance to the earlier Beast/Evil Cordy story. Tremendous letdown. But still, there's plenty of Joss-y goodness in the season, and it's absolutely worth watching.

Basically, Angel S4 is still better than Buffy S7, and Angel S3 is definitely better than Buffy S6 (and that's coming from someone who likes S6).

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