And slowly the country wakes up- IT'S ABOUT GORRAM TIME.

POSTED BY: chrisisall
UPDATED: Saturday, May 27, 2006 05:05
VIEWED: 3306
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SONOFMAN

Sunday, May 21, 2006 3:53 AM

to be honost, i would rather have people attack this issue from all sides, we would be more productive. if it becomes a anti-christian conspiracy(like i personally believe), then we risk getting discredited as the lunatic fringe. we need un-biased research definately. if people who are not necessarily bible believers can form a credible case against this elite conspiracy, then lets do it. i just cant help but recognize the overlap in my belief and the apparent belief of the occultists; in that mine is/was directly opposed to theirs.

my thing about the Bible, everyone from Noah to Abraham would be familiar with the cultural beliefs of the time, since they were caught directly in the middle of them. the Bibles claim is that Abrahams descendants where chosen to redeem mankind from its fallen, corrupted state. i have to believe that as aware as we are of the origins of the bibles stories, how much more so were they? the difference being that the bible views the same events from a different vantage point..which is where it differs, since it claims to be Gods intercession to man, rather than Mans experience with god-like beings. now thats my opinion..i realize im biased. but i believe the eye witness accounts of Jesus' miracles(since even the Jews didnt deny them..and they despised him), and the witnesses to his ressurection...along with the sound theology of the NT. but i dont mean to divert this discussion

a good public discussion about this from all sides, atleast to shed light on the innaccuracies, if nothing else, is vitally needed. i mean, if the Government can prove us wrong, then do it and silence us already! i suspect its not soo easy, which would imply some guilt, right?

CITIZEN

Sunday, May 21, 2006 11:10 AM

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a good public discussion about this from all sides, atleast to shed light on the innaccuracies, if nothing else, is vitally needed. i mean, if the Government can prove us wrong, then do it and silence us already! i suspect its not soo easy, which would imply some guilt, right?

It doesn't imply guilt.

If conspiracy theorists can prove that the world is run by British-Commie-Nazi-Alien-Jews why don't they do that instead of ranting and raving about the NWO and what will happen to us all.

Kind of implies they can't, doesn't it.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

AURAPTOR

Sunday, May 21, 2006 1:11 PM

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And no, neither election was 'stolen', as Piratejenny has stated. That's just the epitome of a sore loser trying to explain away getting their ass kicked. ' You cheated! ' Waaahhh!
Auraptor, this is where you really need to pull your head out of your *ss. We judge the fairness of elections all over the world- from Afghanistan to the Ukraine- using exit polls. Our own exit polls have a track record that goes back decades- their error is well-known, as is the error of our vote tabulation. People far brighter than you and I looked at the probability of the exits polls and tabulations being so far off in 2004 and have come to the conclusion that FRAUD is the only possible explanation.

You're making the ASSumption that those doing the exit polling weren't trying to skew the vote themsleves. From Florida 2000 to Ohio 2004, there hasn't been ONE substantiated claim of voter fraud. You say 'fraud', and yet offer no evidence. Were there problems in the system? Clearly there was. But pointing that out doesn't mean there was fraud by default. Sorry, but every precinct is responsible for running their own elections. But if you want to talk about known fraud and a stolen election, go back to the 1960 JFK win over Nixon.

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As for Bush, he's turned out to be far less conservative than those who voted for him had hoped.
About 49-50% of the vote went to Bush. Approximately half of those people are now regretting their vote. So although Bush may not be as conservative as SOME people (most likely the religious right) had hoped for, he is more conservative than some of his other votes had anticpiated. You're basically comparing Bush's record to the farthest right of the conservative spectrum. So yeah- he's not Genghis Khan he's Emperor Nero. Whoopee.

You mistakenly think that those who regret voting for Bush did so on the basis he's TOO conservative. Nothing could be further from the truth. On matters I stated above, Bush has drifted far more toward the centre/Left, at the very same time his " poll numbers" have dropped. While Gas prices ( which a President has zero control over ) and the war in Iraq have something to do w/it, his policy choices in other areas leaves Conservatives fuming.

People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

SIGNYM

Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:02 PM

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You're making the ASSumption that those doing the exit polling weren't trying to skew the vote themsleves. From Florida 2000 to Ohio 2004, there hasn't been ONE substantiated claim of voter fraud. You say 'fraud', and yet offer no evidence.

So the exit pollsters- the same one that have been doing our exit polls for decades- NOW suddenly implement their long-term and heretofor invisible plan to skew the election??? You have no proof- not even a shred of evidence- that there was a conspiracy to skew the exit polls. However, it does seem suspicious that the worst cases of divergence occurred in counties where electronic voting machine with NO AUDIT TRAIL were being used.

As far as no proof of fraud- seriously 'Rap, is your head up there for the warmth??? There certainly was proof of fraud in the 2000 election. Katherine Harris, the FLA nut-job running for Senate who was Scy State at the time- kicked 19,000 people off the voter rolls when even the compnay that was generating that list (Choice Point) complained- BY LETTER- that there were not enough matching fields in the data (first names, last-names, birth dates didn't match) to confirm identities. Harris basically wrote back instructing them to keep on as they had been. She sent out the lists to the various counties, many of which assumed that the lists were correct. I'll see if I can find the link.

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Were there problems in the system? Clearly there was. But pointing that out doesn't mean there was fraud by default. Sorry, but every precinct is responsible for running their own elections. But if you want to talk about known fraud and a stolen election, go back to the 1960 JFK win over Nixon.

Does this mean that just because JFK did it, you think I'm going to automatically say its's OK? No, I'm not. But why would I want to talk about something that ended when I was in... oh, third grade? JFK isn't in office now, Bush is.

---------------------------------
Don't piss in my face and tell me it's raining.

FREDGIBLET

Sunday, May 21, 2006 4:20 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
While Gas prices ( which a President has zero control over )

Control, no. Influence, yes. Bush started a war in the Middle East, wars in the Middle East make OPEC nervous (and angry), particularly when they are pre-emptive. Additionally, our continued presence in Iraq, and our recent problems with Iran aren't doing anything to help. And also our dear President got his job because of money from oil campanies, they know that he won't even try to stop them from charging whatever they want. I don't blame Bush in particular for the gas prices, I blame Big Oil which happens to include Bush.

CHRISISALL

Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:06 PM

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Originally posted by AURaptor:

As for Bush, he's turned out to be far less conservative than those who voted for him had hoped.

Bush has failed us with the expansion of the size of Gov't, increased spending, "

Oops! Sounding like Dreamtrove here...

The conservative Chrisisall

SONOFMAN

Sunday, May 21, 2006 6:32 PM

Citizen-

it could be possible to prove sufficiently that their is some kind of massive cover-up, with just the known data thats been revealed, only i have yet to see a honost-to-goodness, faithfull attempt to co-operate at all levels..especially when it comes to withholding intelligence(such as the NSA/white house). but something of this magnitude entirely relies on the medias willingness to run with a story like they're willing to do with Natalie Holoway or Bird Flue. if the major media conglomorates are part of the problem though, then subsequently, and likewise...anytime the conspiracy related evidence goes public(like with Charlie Sheen lately..but there have been numerous, prominant whistle blowers who get no recognition), the media goes into attack mode, and the statements become awash and diverted into "who let the crazy hollywood liberal with the tinfoil hat speak?" knee jerk hour. i know of popular mechanics attempting to expose the faulty logic in the conspiracies..so likewise they chose to discredit the less likely scenarios that are floating around out there(which leads me to believe that it may have been a hit-piece)..but then, maybe im just believing what i want to believe huh?

but i do know that the 9/11 commission alone can be considered a white-wash; if any of you have read David Griffins "9/11 report: ommissions and distortions", its a really concise compilation of the data that we highly-skeptical elitists conspiracy theorists run with

CITIZEN

Sunday, May 21, 2006 9:27 PM

And I have yet to see an honest to goodness coherent theory from the loony camp.

Your both as bad as each other.

More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
"I had a rose named after me and I was very flattered. But I was not pleased to read the description in the catalog: 'No good in a bed, but fine against a wall'." -- Eleanor Roosevelt.

KWICKO

Saturday, May 27, 2006 4:35 AM

Hero wrote:

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I suppose they could put up Obama as a counter...but he's a lightweight with one good speech under his belt...

I've gotta rebut that a bit...

That "one good speech", in and of itself, would make him IMMINENTLY more qualified than our current President, who can't string two words together without a long pregnant "Uhhmmm....Uh..." between them.

And before you list Dubya's governorship of Texas as a "qualification" for his current position, please know that that post is purely a figurehead position in my state. The Texas Legislature had Union "carpetbagger" governors forced on it during the Reconstruction after the US Civil War, and said Legislature amended the Texas State Constitution *specifically* to severely limit the Governor's powers in this state. The true power here is in the hands of the Lieutenant Governor, and to a somewhat lesser degree in the hands of the Railroad Commissioner (who oversees and wields power over how, when, and where things go in this state - things such as OIL and drilling equipment!).

As for how much actual power the Governor of Texas holds... well, he's tied for dead last (49th out of 50, a two-way tie) in terms of how powerful his position is compared with other state Governors. Ours is tied with South Dakota's. according to my University Of Texas-approved Government textbooks. You might be able to force a Governor upon us, but you can't make us give him any real power once he's here.

So Barak Obama, a US Senator, has infinitely more power than the Governor of Texas. And as an added bonus, he can spell the word "cat" without your having to spot him the "c" and the "t", quite unlike our current President. There is one thing I admire about George W. Bush, though: his ability to tell his right from his left, often in as little as two tries! Takes him a bit longer to tell right from wrong, though...

Mike

"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right."
- Laurens van der Post

PIRATEJENNY

Saturday, May 27, 2006 5:05 AM

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Originally posted by Hero:
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Originally posted by piratejenny:
I think people are truly kidding themselves if they really think that voting is the answer to this problem, I've known all along that Jeb Bush is going to run for president next election, and he will win just like his brother won, they will cheat, and steal again, and if people think we are going to get a democratic congress they need to think again

Thats the spirit. I hope all the liberals think the same way.

My money is on Jeb Bush not running in 2008, although if the Democrats win in '08 then Jeb could be a good challenger in '12.

I think we are also seeing a shift in the debate. I think that Democrats need to take a close look at the last 6 years. Everytime they've challenged the President on an issue, they've lost. And everytime they have gotten any momentum, they've lost. My money is on them losing again this fall. Imagine, PA and OH both with conservative, African-American Republican Governors, both of whom will speak at the Republican Convention in 2008 and be on the VP shortlist.

McCain/Swann in 2008...vs. maybe a Kerry, Clinton, or a Gore? I suppose they could put up Obama as a counter...but he's a lightweight with one good speech under his belt...that didn't work for them the last time they tried someone like that (William Jennings Bryan).

"Having behind us the producing masses of this nation and the world, supported by the commercial interests, the laboring interests and the toilers everywhere, we will answer their demand for a gold standard by saying to them: You shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns, you shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold."- Bryan, 1896.

H

Zero you think the path to least resistance is despair, I think the path to least resistance is faith....ok so I heard that quote in a movie but I agree with it and think it fits.

your faith in our current government and those like you, and your lock step approach to everything they do is killing this country, but I guess thats what your aiming for!!

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