US Border Patrol gives Minutemen locations to Mexican Gov't. !!

POSTED BY: AURaptor
UPDATED: Monday, May 15, 2006 13:40
VIEWED: 14225
PAGE 9 of 9

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Originally posted by Merchantmarine1:
Citizen,

You obviously do not know or understand the meaning of vigilante anyone can quote a dictionary term.

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Which is how you learn the definition of something - by quoting a dictionary term. Just because someone isn't carrying a noose or a lead pipe and beating justice into someone doesn't mean they aren't vigilantes. It just means they don't fit into your understanding of what a vigilante is. "Death Wish" is vigilantism taken to the extreme.

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I do not need to submit any proof

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You always need to submit proof in any argument if the facts are in dispute. You can say Juputer is made out of cheddar cheese, but it doesn't make it true until you can prove it.

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You have not responded to the accounts of the minuteman groups in California that and else where that have been threatend by illegals attempting to gain entry.

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He may not have, but you haven't countered my argument for it, which you can read further back in this thread. If the Minuteman civilians weren't there, they wouldn't be threatened. The fact that they are putting themselves in harm's way without any specialized training and and acting in a manner that is outside legitimate governmental authority makes them vigilantes, and they bring it on themselves.

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What I see is someone whom for what ever reason has dislike or hatred for a group or any group that is trying to at least make some effort for their communities or states.

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If they want to make an effort, they will petition their elected government agents for enacting a new solution; OR, they will join the police, border patrol, or military and help out that way. Until they do, they are acting outside the law and potentially hampering the work by legitimate border agents.

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You point out racial agenda's that have nothing to do with standing on the border with a cell phone and binoculars.

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Those racial agendas have everything to do with it. How would you feel if a Nazi, or a Klansman, or a radical Islamist stood up and said that they represented America, and you? Would you let that stand? If an orgaization that is supposedly the 'face of America standing up for itself' is composed of hate criminals, then they DO need to get out of the way and crawl back under whatever rock they slithered from beneath.

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I suggest you either stand at the border and make a difference or get out of the way or are you the type to just go ahead allow the 12 million (govt estimate) in give them citizenship and that will solve the problem.

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As I pointed out in a previous post, you're making huge fallacies here. "Idiots on the border or let everyone in" are not our only choices. Spending more money on trained personnel, using Guardsmen, etc. are all viable options. Not supporting the Minutemen DOES NOT EQUAL supporting millions of illegal immigrants.

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You don't support neighborhood watch by criticizing their attempts or actions.

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See an earlier thread by me in which I said just that. I'll argue with you on that issue; I don't like Neighborhood Watch, either.

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If any illegals were executed by the minutemen I would agree.

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Is that what it would take? Executiion? Or if it came to torture, would you stop there? Or what if the Minutemen interfered with a joint operation by the American or Mexican governments? Where does it stop? Or is it no harm no foul as long as no one dies?

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I suppose you do not believe that the marchers closing down businesses and attempting the same on our major cities is in no way vigilante?

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Not according to the First Amendment. You do understand the right of Americans to peacably assemble, don't you?

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My suggestion spend more time in the real world at the front of this political and social hot spot and less in the front of the computer. ... while you spout about some ridiiculius notions of racial or nazi beliefs.

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Way to personally attack Citizen. But if you want to

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Originally posted by Merchantmarine1:
You obviously do not know or understand the meaning of vigilante anyone can quote a dictionary term.

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What's that sound? It's a rushing kind of whooshing sound. Oh it's stopped now, after a kind of booming banging sound. I guess it must be your credibility, dropping.

No, I understand the term vigilante, I just don't live in lala land (i.e. your head) where your meaning is correct and the meaning agreed upon by the rest of the Human race is not.

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This is where you are wrong, I did not miss any paragraphs, after all, I watch the news and special field reports, I don't have to miss anything, I see their efforts and appreciate what each memeber is doing regardless if you do not.

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Right. You watch the news well done. I watch the news; I read it too, so I guess I've got one up on you, huh.

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You have not responded to the accounts of the minuteman groups in California that and else where that have been threatend by illegals attempting to gain entry.

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I don't remember you bringing it up...

I just checked: you didn't. But anyway you want me to address the issues you haven't brought up when you can't address the ones I have, okay, I have no problem being the bigger man:
If they weren't taking the law in to their own hands they wouldn’t be in the firing line.

So you going to address the issue of Minutemen violently attacking peaceful demonstrators, I mean you watch all the news, you must have heard about it?

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I suggest you either stand at the border and make a difference or get out of the way or are you the type to just go ahead allow the 12 million (govt estimate) in give them citizenship and that will solve the problem. Did you see the rallies or did you participate in them I am trying to figure out which.

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I live in Britain, we have duly appointed and trained law enforcement agencies over here. If you don't you really need to look at your government before anywhere else, but then I thought the US did have law enforcement agencies. Maybe I'm wrong; maybe the US isn't a civilised nation.

Now did you see the rallies or did you participate in them or did someone tell you about them, I think I've worked out which.

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If any illegals were executed by the minutemen I would agree.

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Well at least we know where you stand. Just to the right of the KKK it would seem.

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I suppose you do not believe that the marchers closing down businesses and attempting the same on our major cities is in no way vigilante?

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As I said I don't subscribe to your personal definition. Taking a stab in the dark, a vigilante is someone who you don't like, right? Anyway since they weren't taking the law into their own hands (marching isn't law enforcement ) no, whatever else they are, they’re not vigilantes. But then I'm using the accepted definition of vigilante, I understand you don't believe it unless you decide its right.

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My suggestion spend more time in the real world at the front of this political and social hot spot and less in the front of the computer.

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Maybe I could put the world to rights while serving in the merchant navy thousands of miles away, while sitting in front of someone elses computer. That would make the two of us equal at least, eh.

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You do not provide answers about the labor laws and illegal/undocumented workers in the country already.

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Neither have you. Oh was murdering illegal immigrants your suggestion? Sorry I thought you were joking didn't think someone would seriously make such an openly fascist statement like that.

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So in closing.. while you spout about some ridiiculius notions of racial or nazi beliefs.

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Well if the jack boot fits...

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More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
And as you know, these are open forums, you're able to come and listen to what I have to say.

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7 percent, you hate neighborhood watch, great hope your little neighborhood is the safest around. You say I offer no solutions, in fact I have, I support any means necessary to enforce the laws of my country. If using the National Guard to patrol the border, transport exsisting illegals captured in other states fine. You hate the minutemen movement YOUR OPINION. Oh.. I did support family and friends movements even while abroad.. funding for petitions and marches.. I support investigations into business practices of hiring undocumented aliens, and the support severing business ties with any business that supports the marches. Like I said, no answers WHY NOT MARCH IN MEXICO CITY FOR CHANGES IN THEIR COUNTRIES SOCIAL PROGRAMS. For citizen, coming from Britain, one of the toughest immigration regulators of Europe, you spout against U.S. policies, if 12 million undocumented entered the U.K. illegally I do not think you would be so supportive. I do have friends in U.K., what is it, for citizenship? 1 year stay in the U.K. and you are not eligible for any medical or employment? You are basically on your own without any government support or assistance. British citizenship is what EARNED! Murdering Millions of immigrants? where did that come from.. You need to come to America or get educated on the subject matter before entering this conversation. The problem originates in Mexico not in the U.S., and again you spout what nazi themes and you know nothing of the problem on our border. Yes we have a police force and border patrols and clearly that is not enough. I see nothing wrong with citizens volunteering their time to stand a watch and report crimes. If you do then I suggest March for illegals and hire them for your business.. oh.. you spout first amendment rights? you can if you can prove 100 percent if all the marchers were citizens of the U.S. when already even the organizers have said in News interviews majority was undocumented immigrants.. and THEY HAVE ALREADY STATED ON NUMEROUS PROGRAMS THE TERM ILLEGAL ALIENS IS RACIST, BUT PROPER TERM IMMIGRANT just. These are all excuses for those who want everything and not earn it. Its easy to march, sneak across borders and hide. You want action wait until the National Guard starts patrols, wait until the marchers do not get the ammnesty they want. Their efforst are not going to motivate our government. In England ask this, would your government and the people of England tolerate such social disrespect as shown by the marchers (waiving their countries flags)? I hope you are honest. And finally to both 7 percent and Citizen, you have not dismantled any of my arguments, you dislike the actions of groups making a stand.. but you also say nothing about people marching voicing and waiving their own countries flags and still demand rights and citizenship.. ANSWER THIS.. WHAT IS WRONG IS STANDING IN LINE, FILING THE PAPERS AND FOLLOWING THE LAW? AND this I truly do not understand? in regards to the violence encountered? what was said.. stay out of the firing line? ARE THE BOTH OF YOU SAYING THAT THE ILLEGALS ENTERING MY COUNTRY ARE DOING SO UNDER FORCE OF ARMS? I WONDER IF THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED IN THE U.K. I WONDER IF YOUR GOVERNMENT WOULD ALLOW THE THREATS BY ILLEGAL UNDOCUMENTED PERSONS TOWARDS YOUR CITIZENS? ANSWER THAT? OH. WHAT ARE YOU DOING AND WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTIONS? COMING FROM THE U.K.?

I DID LIKE THE JACK BOOT THEME.. WAS THAT AT YOUR ADORABLE PRINCES PARTY? AND HIS DELIGHTFUL NAZI UNIFORM?

JUST TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT ABOUT THIS WIDELY USED TERM VIGILANTE.. IN THE U.S. CITIZENS can make CITIZEN ARRESTS, each state has a statue allowing their citizens to act within reason to stop a crime. how ever deadly force is not justified in this case since the citizen is not in a law enforcment capacity. However, in the states affected by the influx of illegal aliens, California has strict gun control laws, carrying in public is against the law, Arizona, Texas and New Mexico have laws allowing the carrying of firearms but the citizen

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PirateMarine, MerchantNews(what can I say you sound just like him)MerchantMarine:
So no answers on the Minutemen are vigilantes issue then, no? Let me check. No, no answer, I guess you agree, why else would you go attacking the British royal family when we're talking about the Minutemen?

Hokay, lets take this one bit of ignorant bullshit at a time shall we:

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Originally posted the MerchantMarine:
For citizen, coming from Britain, one of the toughest immigration regulators of Europe, you spout against U.S. policies, if 12 million undocumented entered the U.K. illegally I do not think you would be so supportive.

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Actually we don't have the toughest immigration regulations in Europe, Immigrants by pass just about every other European nation for just that reason. Where did you hear that? Oh no wait a minute, you made it up, that's right .

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I do have friends in U.K., what is it, for citizenship?

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I have friends on Mars, no Europa, no the moon...

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1 year stay in the U.K. and you are not eligible for any medical or employment? You are basically on your own without any government support or assistance.

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Repeat after me: Just because you made it up doesn't make it so.

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Murdering Millions of immigrants? where did that come from.. You need to come to America or get educated on the subject matter before entering this conversation.

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No I didn't say anything about murdering illegals. I believe that was you.

Yep I checked it was you, right here:

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If any illegals were executed by the minutemen I would agree.

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Now, get educated on the subject, well since the only person who has said things that are blatantly wrong here is you, I'd have to agree, YOU do need to educate yourself on the subject before joining in on the conversation .

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The problem originates in Mexico not in the U.S., and again you spout what nazi themes and you know nothing of the problem on our border.

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No, again the person who brought up the Nazi's was actually you .

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Yes we have a police force and border patrols and clearly that is not enough.

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So, like I said you take that up with the government, you make them do something about it. Or you start a vigilante group. So are you getting around to explaining how the Minutemen aren't vigilantes, you know ever. It's been four posts now and you still haven't managed it.

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If you do then I suggest March for illegals and hire them for your business.. oh.. you spout first amendment rights? you can if you can prove 100 percent if all the marchers were citizens of the U.S. when already even the organizers have said in News interviews majority was undocumented immigrants.. and THEY HAVE ALREADY STATED ON NUMEROUS PROGRAMS THE TERM ILLEGAL ALIENS IS RACIST, BUT PROPER TERM IMMIGRANT just.

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I didn't mention the first amendment. As for the rest I speak English, could you please try and do the same?

Oh and they’re called paragraphs, for god sake use them.

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These are all excuses for those who want everything and not earn it.

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Seems kind of reminiscent of things said by the KKK and (Might as well say it if your going to keep accusing me of it) Nazis. Just saying.

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In England ask this, would your government and the people of England tolerate such social disrespect as shown by the marchers (waiving their countries flags)? I hope you are honest.

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Yes they would, and do on a daily basis. If you knew anything about the UK you'd probably know that.

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WHAT IS WRONG IS STANDING IN LINE, FILING THE PAPERS AND FOLLOWING THE LAW?

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Nothing at all, it's just a pity the minutemen can't do this, you know lobby the government, fill out the correct forms. I guess they'd rather play soldiers.

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AND this I truly do not understand? in regards to the violence encountered? what was said.. stay out of the firing line? ARE THE BOTH OF YOU SAYING THAT THE ILLEGALS ENTERING MY COUN

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